toldailytopic: How does God handle babies when they die?

[Krsto]

Nothing Arthur. Absolutely nothing at all. I don't know what I was thinking. :doh:



Yes, you're right. You understand the workings of the universe better than God.



And yet, that same "God is love" rained brimstone and fire upon entire cities, full of men, women, children and babies and destroyed all life on earth, man, woman, child and baby save those in the ark.

Nuff said.

All men will suffer natural death, those who were judged just got it sooner and so it would be hard to tag "evil and capricious," on to that action, but AB wasn't talking about that, he was talking about eternal suffering, so why bring up Sodom & Gomorrah? How does that justify eternal torment?

 

[chrysostom]

If you believe in imputed sin, then there would have to be a hidden mechanism for the salvation of the young.

Does the Catholic Church perform infant baptisms? If so, why?

At what age does the Catholic Church say that children are able to sin?

neither you nor the Catholic Church is going to tell God what to do with babies

 

[Krsto]

does anyone understand it?

Some of us do. They believe God consigns some to eternal life and the rest to eternal suffering. How they get to the point of believing that is somewhat complicated but that is what they believe, nonetheless.

 

[Skavau]

For all those on the fence here, let's rephrase the question:

Does it bother you what God could do with dead babies? Would it bother you if they were consigned to eternal torment?

 

[some other dude]

neither you nor the Catholic Church is going to tell God what to do with babies

Aw cmon, answer my questions. I really don't know what the Church's position is on this.

Do you guys perform infant baptisms?

 

[chrysostom]

Some of us do. They believe God consigns some to eternal life and the rest to eternal suffering. How they get to the point of believing that is somewhat complicated but that is what they believe, nonetheless.

it is so complicated I will never understand it

 

[some other dude]

toldailytopic: How does God handle babies when they die?

Silly Knight.

Babies don't die.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Nothing Arthur. Absolutely nothing at all. I don't know what I was thinking. :doh:

What was your point? To show that Gabriel is a vengeful angel because someone wrote that in a film? lain:

Yes, you're right. You understand the workings of the universe better than God.

Better than you at any rate if you actually believe God does such. Do you? Have a look at what the bible says about love and then tie it in with such a twisted dogma.

And yet, that same "God is love" rained brimstone and fire upon entire cities, full of men, women, children and babies and destroyed all life on earth, man, woman, child and baby save those in the ark.

Nuff said.

I'm not a creationist so I don't see the ark story as literal anyway. Life on this plane is full of death and suffering. Hardly comparable to a God who throws helpless babies into a pit of eternal suffering. According to you my sister's miscarried baby is either in or awaiting such a fate. Anyone who actually believes that is one twisted and sick individual.

lain:

 

[andyc]

And yet, that same "God is love" rained brimstone and fire upon entire cities, full of men, women, children and babies and destroyed all life on earth, man, woman, child and baby save those in the ark.

Nuff said.

When nations became as perverted as these nations, they had to be cut out like dead wood. They were so given to evil that it was mercy on the rest of the world that they be removed.

 

[some other dude]

it is so complicated I will never understand it

Yep, that's where I come down.

I guess that makes us "twisted".

 

[Arthur Brain]

name one

Nang strongly alluded to it in a previous conversation on the topic, namely that only the preordained young will be spared. It's usually Calvinists who do hold to such a position in my experience but I don't recall the names of every single person I've talked about it with.

lain:

 

[some other dude]

I'm not a creationist so I don't see the ark story as literal anyway.

I don't see believing the bible to be factual equating to "creationism", but you're certainly welcome to your beliefs.

However, it does look like you're picking and choosing from scripture to create a religion that you're comnfortable with.

Are you sure you want to call it "Christian"?

Life on this plane is full of death and suffering. Hardly comparable to a God who throws helpless babies into a pit of eternal suffering.

Helpless babies or helpless sinners, what's the difference?

According to you my sister's miscarried baby is either in or awaiting such a fate.

Arthur, do you think we could discuss this without personalizing it?

 

[some other dude]

When nations became as perverted as these nations, they had to be cut out like dead wood. They were so given to evil that it was mercy on the rest of the world that they be removed.

Even the children and babies? Burning them in torment with fire and brimstone is merciful?

Dude, that's twisted.

 

[Skavau]

Nang strongly alluded to it in a previous conversation on the topic, namely that only the preordained young will be spared. It's usually Calvinists who do hold to such a position in my experience but I don't recall the names of every single person I've talked about it with.

lain:

Some other dude doesn't appear to have a problem with the prospect of babies being tortured forever, or is just trying to cause indignation.

Can't tell.

 

[some other dude]

Some other dude doesn't appear to have a problem with the prospect of babies being tortured forever, or is just trying to cause indignation.

Can't tell.

As I made clear in my first post, I'm playing devil's advocate, arguing the scripturally supported calvinist view of imputed sin and eternal damnation for the unsaved.

Don't argue against me, argue against scripture.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I don't see believing the bible to be factual equating to "creationism", but you're certainly welcome to your beliefs.

However, it does look like you're picking and choosing from scripture to create a religion that you're comnfortable with.

Are you sure you want to call it "Christian"?

And you're welcome to yours also. Where you see literalism I see allegory but that's a rabbit trail best left to other threads on the topic.

It may look like I pick and choose to you but you're simply wrong on that score. I don't embrace anything simply because it has surface appeal else I'd have done so years ago.

Helpless babies or helpless sinners, what's the difference?

It's cruel on both counts.

Arthur, do you think we could discuss this without personalizing it?

Why? Is it uncomfortable for you to acknowledge it for some reason? Are you actually playing 'devils advocate' here or is this what you believe?

 

[bybee]

As I made clear in my first post, I'm playing devil's advocate, arguing the scripturally supported calvinist view of imputed sin and eternal damnation for the unsaved.

Don't argue against me, argue against scripture.

A baby cannot say "Yay" or "Nay" to anything. Therefore, a baby, whether still in the womb or out, cannot be expected to be held to a standard which requires acceptance for salvation.

 

[Arthur Brain]

As I made clear in my first post, I'm playing devil's advocate, arguing the scripturally supported calvinist view of imputed sin and eternal damnation for the unsaved.

Don't argue against me, argue against scripture.

If you're arguing from a Calvinist perspective then you've no real business arguing as you are really. Your position rests on babies being condemned because they've not accepted God doesn't it? Calvinists believe that babies can be saved regardless as long as they're part of the 'elect'.

 

[chrysostom]

Nang strongly alluded to it in a previous conversation on the topic, namely that only the preordained young will be spared. It's usually Calvinists who do hold to such a position in my experience but I don't recall the names of every single person I've talked about it with.

lain:

why don't you and Nang get that resolved
and
then get back to us

 

[some other dude]

A baby cannot say "Yay" or "Nay" to anything. Therefore, a baby, whether still in the womb or out, cannot be expected to be held to a standard which requires acceptance for salvation.

Where is that in scripture? Where in scripture does it say that imputed sin is conditional?