toldailytopic: Is homosexuality genetic?

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aSeattleConserv

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Even the "reformed" homosexuals here still admit to same gender attraction as it's something beyond control in itself.

As seen in this article by a former lesbian, environmental factors were SOLELY responsible for her LIFESTYLE BEHAVIOR.

"Former lesbian Janet Boynes says that her homosexuality began as it does for many women: as a response to sexual and psychological abuse she suffered as a child.

She was raised by one of her mother's boyfriends, an alcoholic who abused her mother, who in turn showed Boynes little affection. At 12 she was molested by a relative, then an altar boy at her church. She began to suffer an aversion to men, and found that her own sex was more appealing. She also began using drugs.

"I was starting to become more attracted to women," Boynes told CBN in a recent interview. "So many men had hurt me that these women, I thought, were a lot more like me."

Her pain was covered over by a false masculinity that made her into a school bully, she says, and already in school people began to ask her if she was a lesbian - an idea she avoided until her 20s, when her loneliness led her to her first sexual encounter with a woman.

Although she had had a conversion to Christianity, Boynes says her lesbian experience led her to reject her faith and to enter into the homosexual lifestyle, with all of its turbulence and pain. She moved from one relationship to the next, became a cocaine addict, and developed bulimia, she says.

"My life was miserable. It was starting to go literally down the tubes," says Boynes. "But I was refusing to come back to God."

However, her life began to change when she was invited to a local church that she had often seen on her way to work.

"And me, not thinking in my right mind, I said, 'sure, I'll go.' and I came in with these sweat pants on, looking grubby, not knowing what to expect," Boynes told CBN. "I'm in a room with nine other women, just beautiful women, feminine, and I thought, 'what have I gotten myself into?' so, I'm sitting there with my head down, feeling so ashamed, thinking these women are cruel, they're going to chew me up and spit me out."

"Everyone introduced themselves, and when they got to me, they asked me my name, and I said, 'my name is Janet.' and I said, 'I'm living a homosexual life. But if you help me, I will live my life for the Lord.'"

Boynes says she was shown compassion and understanding, and given support by the church's members in her struggle to free herself from her addictive lifestyle. Eventually, a couple offered to take her into their home, where she lived for a year and received the love she had never experienced as a child. She abandoned lesbianism permanently, and recovered her heterosexual identity.

"I want everybody else that's living the homosexual life who didn't have a great mother or who didn't have a great father to experience that God is a father to the fatherless or motherless," says Boynes. "That what he's done for me, he will do for them also."

Eleven years later, Boynes runs a ministry that offers help to those seeking to escape from the homosexual lifestyle. She also recently testified before the Minnesota Senate's Judiciary Committee against the creation of homosexual "marriage."

Noting that she and one of her lesbian partners wanted to "marry" and adopt children, she told the committee: "I'm so thankful that we did not go through with the plan and perpetuate another dysfunctional family. Children need one mother, and one father."

She also noted that "by legalizing homosexual marriage you are supporting and encouraging behavior that scientific evidence shows makes people sick, often incurable and fatal. I saw this borne out in the lives of many of my friends while I was living a lesbian lifestyle."
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jul/10071608.html
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
attract:
to draw by appealing to the emotions or senses, by stimulating interest, or by exciting admiration; allure; invite: to attract attention; to attract admirers by one's charm.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/attract

I would think that by "recognizing physical beauty", one's interest would be stimulated.

Nope. I recognize Tom Cruise as being a handsome bloke but I have zero attraction towards him. See the difference?

Supposedly you're a bloke as you apparently can't going by your former post so why did you tell Granite you were a woman?

:liberals:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
As seen in this article by a former lesbian, environmental factors were SOLELY responsible for her LIFESTYLE BEHAVIOR.

"Former lesbian Janet Boynes says that her homosexuality began as it does for many women: as a response to sexual and psychological abuse she suffered as a child.

She was raised by one of her mother's boyfriends, an alcoholic who abused her mother, who in turn showed Boynes little affection. At 12 she was molested by a relative, then an altar boy at her church. She began to suffer an aversion to men, and found that her own sex was more appealing. She also began using drugs.

"I was starting to become more attracted to women," Boynes told CBN in a recent interview. "So many men had hurt me that these women, I thought, were a lot more like me."

Her pain was covered over by a false masculinity that made her into a school bully, she says, and already in school people began to ask her if she was a lesbian - an idea she avoided until her 20s, when her loneliness led her to her first sexual encounter with a woman.

Although she had had a conversion to Christianity, Boynes says her lesbian experience led her to reject her faith and to enter into the homosexual lifestyle, with all of its turbulence and pain. She moved from one relationship to the next, became a cocaine addict, and developed bulimia, she says.

"My life was miserable. It was starting to go literally down the tubes," says Boynes. "But I was refusing to come back to God."

However, her life began to change when she was invited to a local church that she had often seen on her way to work.

"And me, not thinking in my right mind, I said, 'sure, I'll go.' and I came in with these sweat pants on, looking grubby, not knowing what to expect," Boynes told CBN. "I'm in a room with nine other women, just beautiful women, feminine, and I thought, 'what have I gotten myself into?' so, I'm sitting there with my head down, feeling so ashamed, thinking these women are cruel, they're going to chew me up and spit me out."

"Everyone introduced themselves, and when they got to me, they asked me my name, and I said, 'my name is Janet.' and I said, 'I'm living a homosexual life. But if you help me, I will live my life for the Lord.'"

Boynes says she was shown compassion and understanding, and given support by the church's members in her struggle to free herself from her addictive lifestyle. Eventually, a couple offered to take her into their home, where she lived for a year and received the love she had never experienced as a child. She abandoned lesbianism permanently, and recovered her heterosexual identity.

"I want everybody else that's living the homosexual life who didn't have a great mother or who didn't have a great father to experience that God is a father to the fatherless or motherless," says Boynes. "That what he's done for me, he will do for them also."

Eleven years later, Boynes runs a ministry that offers help to those seeking to escape from the homosexual lifestyle. She also recently testified before the Minnesota Senate's Judiciary Committee against the creation of homosexual "marriage."

Noting that she and one of her lesbian partners wanted to "marry" and adopt children, she told the committee: "I'm so thankful that we did not go through with the plan and perpetuate another dysfunctional family. Children need one mother, and one father."

She also noted that "by legalizing homosexual marriage you are supporting and encouraging behavior that scientific evidence shows makes people sick, often incurable and fatal. I saw this borne out in the lives of many of my friends while I was living a lesbian lifestyle."
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jul/10071608.html

How does any of this negate the homosexual attraction that several people here are honest enough to admit they still have? Even this woman doesn't state she's eradicated it. Furthermore this testimony is hardly evidence that ALL homosexuals only become so due to environmental factors so I'm not sure what point you think you've made....
 

aSeattleConserv

BANNED
Banned
How does any of this negate the homosexual attraction that several people here are honest enough to admit they still have?

You base your argument on what a few people on an anonymous internet blog say? (Let me check to see if that is considered a legitimate scientific study).


Even this woman doesn't state she's eradicated it.

The fact that she stated that her homosexual behavior was based on environmental factors, means that she wasn't inherently attracted to the same sex. Through spiritual help, she was able to get past her nightmares of the past and move on.

Furthermore this testimony is hardly evidence that ALL homosexuals only become so due to environmental factors so I'm not sure what point you think you've made....

Each person battling with the sin of homosexuality is an individual. In order to know why each individual CHOSE the homosexual lifestyle, we'd have to know what factors were prevalent in their life that helped them make that choice.

ELCA Bishop Vicky Imogene Robinson (aka Gene Robinson) was treated like a girl from birth, because his parents wanted a girl.
http://americansfortruth.com/news/bishop-vicky-gene-robinson-wants-to-be-a-june-bride.html

While Vicky...ahem...Gene, didn't leave the homosexual lifestyle behind him, we at least know the factors involved in his choice.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
I've never had any say in the women I've been attracted to. You're either attracted to someone or you aren't. By that reckoning we can all choose to become gay and that ain't gonna happen. Even the "reformed" homosexuals here still admit to same gender attraction as it's something beyond control in itself.

I'll submit that who you are initially attracted to is not your choice, it has been determined by how you were raised and your environment. However, you CAN change they type of people you are attracted to via "experimenting" like many people do - or, more specifically, allowing yourself to go beyond your natural comfort zone to see if you wouldn't be attracted to someone who doesn't meet your initial criteria.

You won't ever be attracted to a man because you see no reason to try, and you possibly consider it a sin to try. But if you removed your inhibitions and added a bit of curiosity, I'm sure you could become attracted to a man.

I think part of the curiosity comes in when one thinks that sex is purely about pleasure so that it doesn't matter who or what you are with. If someone gets this idea in their head then I'm sure that they will be willing to "experiment" at least once.
 

MrDeets

TOL Subscriber
As a disclaimer, this is the first time I haven't stood and fought for the Catholic Church on this issue.
http://www.regnery.com/regnery/020618_goodbye.html

On that note (are you listening Traditio?)...

WHY is an altar boys hair parted down the middle?

:banned:<--- The answer is completely covered by that stinking smiley. I don't know what happened. Every time I try to type it, that dang thing covers my answer. Sorry
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Another Look at Reparative Therapy and Ex-Gay Ministires

Another Look at Reparative Therapy and Ex-Gay Ministires

And, of course, there are thousands of brave men and women who have rejected the homosexual lifestyle:
Exodus International

As a gay person, I felt strange in a church of heterosexual believers. I tried a gay church for awhile, but sensed the Spirit of God was hindered there, and I wanted the Spirit in His fullness. So I returned to Calvary Chapel and in April, asked the Lord if I were still saved after being away from Him for so long. I heard a resounding, "Yes!" A week later, I asked Jesus to be Lord of my life. I dove into church activities to get all the teaching and fellowship I could, telling people all along the way of my gayness, testing the waters. Lo and behold, they still loved and accepted me! There was no judgment.

On June 3, 1985, I went out to dinner with a man in my home fellowship. He told me that I needed to be healed of my homosexuality. I thought that sounded very strange. I remember thinking, "If God wants that, I'll certainly do it. But I haven't heard anything from Him on this!" However, the next morning I woke up with a strong conviction of my need for deliverance. I called my Christian brother and asked him to pray with me. As he prayed, I trembled all over. I didn't understand what was happening, I just knew it was important. All that day I felt empty, as though I'd lost my best friend (now I realize that a part of me had died). About 3:00 in the afternoon, I was sitting at my desk, still feeling empty. The Holy Spirit brought to mind part of a verse I hadn't heard or read for 15 years..."Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (II Cor. 5:17) The emptiness left me and I felt full again. I knew I was on the right track.​


Critical review -

Thousands being set free from homosexuality? Ah,...lets check out the so called 'success rates' for 'reparative therapy' - Looks like the % is a bit more 'dismal' than the 'claims' -

Reparative therapy: estimates of success


Studies of Reparative and similar therapies (Overview)


Why Reparative therapy and Ex-gay ministries fail

For a History of Ex-gay Ministries,

See this presentation from Truth Wins Out

For a fair analysis......Lets see the other side of the story ;)



pj
 

Paulos

New member
Try reading your own link, of course hermaphrodites are "born that way":

Intersex in humans refers to intermediate or atypical combinations of physical features that usually distinguish female from male.

Homosexuality is a "behavior", not a physical feature.

How are hermaphrodites supposed to "behave"? What is a woman supposed to do if she has male genitalia? If God makes hermaphrodites, why wouldn't he also make homosexuals?

I'm just asking...
 

aSeattleConserv

BANNED
Banned
Critical review -

Thousands being set free from homosexuality? Ah,...lets check out the so called 'success rates' for 'reparative therapy' - Looks like the % is a bit more 'dismal' than the 'claims' -

Reparative therapy: estimates of success


Studies of Reparative and similar therapies (Overview)


Why Reparative therapy and Ex-gay ministries fail

For a History of Ex-gay Ministries,

See this presentation from Truth Wins Out

For a fair analysis......Lets see the other side of the story ;)



pj

How about we "check out" Wayne Besen, founder of "Truth Wins Out", and his HATRED of ex gays?

Gays Hating Ex-Gays
By Greg Quinlan, April 5 2009

What happens when ex-gays dare to come out of the closet? When I helped staff the exhibit booth for the Ex-Gay Educators Caucus at the National Education Association conference in June 2006, Wayne Besen, the former spokesperson for the gay Human Rights Campaign, approached our booth and began to insult us for having the audacity to live as heterosexuals. He took photos of our booth for his ex-gay bashing website which targets the ex-gay community for ridicule and harassment. Mr. Besen and gay rights organizations do not believe ex-gays are entitled to the same rights and respect that gays currently enjoy. They picket ex-gay conferences and protest vigorously against ex-gay equal access.

In his continuing zeal to discredit the ex-gay community, Besen likes to bully ex-gays by insisting that we still look “gay.” When he was Director of Communications for the Human Rights Campaign, Besen delighted in telling me to “butch up” so “normal people” wouldn’t think I’m still “gay.” See his emails for yourself at http://pfox.org/Human-Rights-Campaign-Hate-Against-Ex-Gays.pdf

At the conference, Besen stuck his finger in my face and called me a “BLEEP BLEEP,” “BLEEP BLEEP,” “BLEEP BLEEP,” “BLEEP BLEEP,” and so on. I guess he skipped the tolerance class where school kids learn to appreciate diversity and gays. “You’re still having gay sex,” he yelled at me. We had to call security to escort him out of the convention hall because we were scared for our safety.

Hate against ex-gays like me is all too common. What’s going to happen when Congress passes the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) and national Hate Crimes Act for gays, as Obama has promised? With their hate officially protected by law, gay rights groups will force ex-gays into the closet. Homosexuals will determine heterosexuality by censoring any ex-gay speech or behavior they disagree with as “hateful,” “discriminatory,” “intimidation,” “bullying,” “dangerous,” or leading to “spiritual and physical violence.” We know because this is what they already label us. Fighting “hate” and “discrimination” against gays has become a euphemism for attacks against ex-gays and their supporters.
http://americansfortruth.com/news/g...ne-besens-verbal-assault-on-greg-quinlan.html
 

aSeattleConserv

BANNED
Banned
How are hermaphrodites supposed to "behave"? What is a woman supposed to do if she has male genitalia? If God makes hermaphrodites, why wouldn't he also make homosexuals?

I'm just asking...

Babies that are born with both male and female sexual organs, or characteristics of both organs, are called hermaphrodites or intersex. A child who is in an intersex state is classified in one of three categories: 1) true hermaphrodite – an infant born with both ovaries and testicles and has both male and female sex organs. 2) female pseudohermaphrodite – a genetic female with male external sex organs. 3) male pseudohermaphrodite – genetic male with external sex organs that fail to develop properly, resulting in female or male/female physical characteristics.

In times past, doctors would perform surgeries without first testing the infant to find out its true sex, and the child would sometimes grow up very obviously a man, with female genitalia. Now, specialists can perform an ultrasound, blood test, chromosome analysis, and even do exploratory surgery to find out the baby's true sex. The treatment is still controversial, however.

Some believe that surgery and/or hormonal therapy should begin within the first 15 months of life, and others believe these things should be put off until the child is old enough to make his or her own decision about it. There are pros and cons for each side. Either way, any family with an intersex infant should begin counseling, as should the child when he or she is old enough.

When babies are developing in the womb, they all begin with sex organs that look female. If the baby is male, he begins to produce testosterone, and if the hormone reaches the tissues correctly, the external genitals become a scrotum and penis. Chromosomal or sex hormone abnormalities can produce an infant in an intersex state. It can also be caused by a condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which is a disease the blocks the baby's metabolism. It is not as uncommon as we might think; about 1 in every 2,000 newborns is born in an intersex state.

It is very possible for a child born with both sex organs to grow up to have a healthy view of sexuality and successful relationships. From early on, the child should be taught how valuable, loved and accepted they are by their family and also by God. He or she is not a victim of divine judgment, but God has a plan for each one of us that will bring Him glory, as we can learn from a man who was healed by Jesus Christ.

“'Teacher,' his disciples asked him, 'why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?' 'It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins,' Jesus answered. 'He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him'” (John 9:2-3).
http://www.gotquestions.org/hermaphrodites.html

What's really disgusting is the fact that the GLBT movement takes advantage of these people and embraces them as part of their (perverted) community.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
other viewpoints............

other viewpoints............

How about we "check out" Wayne Besen, founder of "Truth Wins Out", and his HATRED of ex gays?

Gays Hating Ex-Gays
By Greg Quinlan, April 5 2009

What happens when ex-gays dare to come out of the closet? When I helped staff the exhibit booth for the Ex-Gay Educators Caucus at the National Education Association conference in June 2006, Wayne Besen, the former spokesperson for the gay Human Rights Campaign, approached our booth and began to insult us for having the audacity to live as heterosexuals. He took photos of our booth for his ex-gay bashing website which targets the ex-gay community for ridicule and harassment. Mr. Besen and gay rights organizations do not believe ex-gays are entitled to the same rights and respect that gays currently enjoy. They picket ex-gay conferences and protest vigorously against ex-gay equal access.

In his continuing zeal to discredit the ex-gay community, Besen likes to bully ex-gays by insisting that we still look “gay.” When he was Director of Communications for the Human Rights Campaign, Besen delighted in telling me to “butch up” so “normal people” wouldn’t think I’m still “gay.” See his emails for yourself at http://pfox.org/Human-Rights-Campaign-Hate-Against-Ex-Gays.pdf

At the conference, Besen stuck his finger in my face and called me a “BLEEP BLEEP,” “BLEEP BLEEP,” “BLEEP BLEEP,” “BLEEP BLEEP,” and so on. I guess he skipped the tolerance class where school kids learn to appreciate diversity and gays. “You’re still having gay sex,” he yelled at me. We had to call security to escort him out of the convention hall because we were scared for our safety.

Hate against ex-gays like me is all too common. What’s going to happen when Congress passes the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) and national Hate Crimes Act for gays, as Obama has promised? With their hate officially protected by law, gay rights groups will force ex-gays into the closet. Homosexuals will determine heterosexuality by censoring any ex-gay speech or behavior they disagree with as “hateful,” “discriminatory,” “intimidation,” “bullying,” “dangerous,” or leading to “spiritual and physical violence.” We know because this is what they already label us. Fighting “hate” and “discrimination” against gays has become a euphemism for attacks against ex-gays and their supporters.
http://americansfortruth.com/news/g...ne-besens-verbal-assault-on-greg-quinlan.html

I dont advocate 'hate' in any form, neither do I condone Wayne's behavior, if out of order. Just providing some resources to give a balanced view here, as there are many who are gay and happy, just as they are.

Beyond Ex-Gay (online community for those who have survived ex-gay experiences)



pj
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
You base your argument on what a few people on an anonymous internet blog say? (Let me check to see if that is considered a legitimate scientific study).

As oppose to what? Your cut and paste epics? Tell it to Mary Contrary amongst others here doofus. Why on earth should I buy into your version of events when you're simply some....bloke? On an internet forum? Frankly I'm finding it hard to imagine you as an ice cream salesman (person of gender not yet specified) never mind a cop. Get a grip goofball. You're the one basing an argument around a blog! :doh:


The fact that she stated that her homosexual behavior was based on environmental factors, means that she wasn't inherently attracted to the same sex. Through spiritual help, she was able to get past her nightmares of the past and move on.

And of course now she's only attracted to men, right? And of course the fact that she stated her 'behaviour' was due solely to environment means it's all absolutely true then right? No need for further investigation into cause? Hmmm, what was that you were saying about 'legitimate scientific study' ASC? :dunce:


Each person battling with the sin of homosexuality is an individual. In order to know why each individual CHOSE the homosexual lifestyle, we'd have to know what factors were prevalent in their life that helped them make that choice.

Each person battling with anything is an individual you berk. In order to *choose* a "homosexual lifestyle" means being attracted to your own gender to begin with. You're a posting contradiction as so many are when it comes to "choice". Can you choose to be attracted to your own gender in the here ASC? Yes or no?

ELCA Bishop Vicky Imogene Robinson (aka Gene Robinson) was treated like a girl from birth, because his parents wanted a girl.
http://americansfortruth.com/news/bishop-vicky-gene-robinson-wants-to-be-a-june-bride.html

While Vicky...ahem...Gene, didn't leave the homosexual lifestyle behind him, we at least know the factors involved in his choice.

So? How many of these cases do you hunt out ASC? Why do you think it merits your position in any way as an overall argument? It's actually contemptible that you use these examples to try and bolster your position because there's zero evidence that you have actual compassion for those involved.

:plain:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I'll submit that who you are initially attracted to is not your choice, it has been determined by how you were raised and your environment. However, you CAN change they type of people you are attracted to via "experimenting" like many people do - or, more specifically, allowing yourself to go beyond your natural comfort zone to see if you wouldn't be attracted to someone who doesn't meet your initial criteria.

You won't ever be attracted to a man because you see no reason to try, and you possibly consider it a sin to try. But if you removed your inhibitions and added a bit of curiosity, I'm sure you could become attracted to a man.

I think part of the curiosity comes in when one thinks that sex is purely about pleasure so that it doesn't matter who or what you are with. If someone gets this idea in their head then I'm sure that they will be willing to "experiment" at least once.

Sorry mate but it's got nothing to do with a 'comfort zone' as to why I'm not, nor could be attracted to my own gender. I'm simply not 'wired' that way. I've heard it before Csuguy and I'm a bit surprised that you think it's something that supposedly everyone can 'choose'. I was chatted up by a bisexual bloke in a bar once and he tried to convince me of the very same thing that you propose. Nothing doing. I like the opposite sex, simple as.

It's got nothing to do with inhibitions. Why would you think that? It's your call to think as you do but it doesn't apply as far as I'm concerned but you're welcome to think otherwise as you will.

:e4e:
 
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