toldailytopic: Liberal vs. Conservative. Where and why do you stand?

[Ktoyou]

I should have added the definition of "libertarian" as provided by the test results:

Libertarians support maximum liberty in both personal and economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence. Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.​

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

Describes my views very well.

The test is known as the worlds shortest political test:duh:

 

[Ktoyou]

Keep laughing.

Inappropriate speaker choice
Tuesday, April 14, 2009

seMissourian.com

The choice of Mike Henry, writer and character voice for the animated series "Family Guy," to appear at Southeast Missouri State University April 16 as part of the Speakers Series is a poor one.
"Family Guy" features as regular characters a kidnapper/rapist and a pedophile, and the show's writers, which include Henry, delight in blatantly treating rape and pedophilia as subjects to laugh about. Anyone who doubts this has only to watch very few episodes. By inviting Henry to speak without recognizing his lack of empathy for the victims of rape and child molestation is staggeringly bad judgment by the persons responsible for approving his appearance. It's unlikely the same persons would invite someone to speak about the Holocaust as a laugh riot.

As a 26-year law enforcement officer who has dealt with many rapists and child molesters and witnessed the gut-wrenching effects of their handiwork, I am disgusted with my alma mater. It's sad that with a choice of speakers on a variety of important topics, SEMO would elect to provide a forum for just another immoral pop culture figure.

I urge SEMO to cancel Henry's appearance. Should he appear, I hope that well-informed rape victim advocates and child abuse victim advocates will attend to respectfully question Henry about his work.
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1530312.html

Listen sonny,

Take the clicker in hand and change the channel.

 

[Rusha]

You are illegal immigration? :squint:

Nope, I forgot to add *anti*.

 

[Buzzword]

And on a side note, I think States that require a front license plate on vehicles are ridiculous. Thank you for not having us conform to the stupidness of a front license plate PA!

Why is that ridiculous, if you don't mind my asking?

The only state I've seen require it is Texas, and that's mainly so if someone slams into you, they can't Reverse for two miles to keep you from getting their plate number.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Seeing as how some of these are not allowed for discussion on the open forums of TOL I cannot give you a full answer as I would love to, but I really want to know how and why you deem some of these as sin. Well, only one actually. The other three I'm with ya on those.

As for arresting someone for doing something simply because it is a sin, that is not a job the government should ever have. We don't want these to be illegal [homosexual sex, bestiality, pornography] simply because they are sins, but because they are criminal acts. They are acts against what is right and decent in civilized society. They are deviant acts. They are not only sins, just as murder is not only a sin.

You wouldn't ask this question if we were discussing the merits of legal action in regard to murder. You would not assume we wanted murder to be illegal simply because it is a sin. So why do you assume that is why we want these sexually deviant acts to be illegal?

P.S.
Adultery is another one you forgot to include. That should be illegal as well.

P.P.S.
You pretty much answered your own question: they are perversions.

The voice of common sense speaks. Not much of it around here.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Okaaay... then why do you think deviancy and perversions should be illegal?

Murder is different. Murder trespasses on somebody else's right to their life, which makes it illegal. I don't think murder should be illegal because it is a sin, but rather because it infringes upon the rights of others.

Besides, what is deviant and perverted for one can be considered normal and fine for another. Why should your worldview be thrust upon others in a legal way? Wouldn't you reject somebody else's attempts to do the same with their interpretations of deviancy?

So, really you haven't answered the question.
Newman: Why do you think perversions should be illegal?
Lighthouse: Because they are perversions.

Where's a straightjacket when you need one?

 

[aSeattleConserv]

...it's a cartoon...for adults. If you're letting your children watch Family Guy your parenting skills are on the level of Wile E. Coyote's grasp of basic physics. lain:

It's a (worthless left wing progaganda machine) for "stoners and slackers".

Given the chance that some of the stoners and slackers have moved out of mothers basement and have reproduced and actually have their child(ren) living with them (chances are the girlfriend either had the "problem" aborted, or has custody of them while on welfare), do you really think that said stoner and slacker would care if their child watched said perverted tv program?

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Listen sonny,

Take the clicker in hand and change the channel.

I've heard something like that before. How does it go? "If you don't like abortion, don't have one."

Turn down the volume, it's seriously affected any brain cells you have left.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

I should have added the definition of "libertarian" as provided by the test results:

Libertarians support maximum liberty in both personal and economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence. Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.​

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

Describes my views very well.

Now we're getting somewhere. Libertarianism (also known as "if it feels goooood do it"). Let's take a look at their party platform and see what "civil liberties" they defend:

Preamble
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

And here I thought God was sovereign over our lives. Maybe they have that listed somewhere else (boy, I can't seem to find God mentioned ANYWHERE in the Libertarian Party Platform, go figure).

1.3 Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the
government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,
immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or
restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices
and personal relationships.

Ah yes, the big "c" word, "consent". As long as there is "consent" in any sexual act, it's OK. There's no such thing as a perversion as long as "consent" is applied. Afterall, it is MY BODY, and I can do with it what I want, right? (back to the sovereignty thing).

1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

Uh huh, murder is an "individual conscientious consideration" matter. No moral absolutes here, but then again if we're sovereign over our own bodies, we can do ANYTHING we want with it.

Further reading of their party platform will show that they're pro-pornography, pro-prostitution, of course pro-recreational narcotics, open borders, as well as trading with tyrants.
http://www.lp.org/platform

Utopia at last.

 

[Paulos]

Now we're getting somewhere. Libertarianism (also known as "if it feels goooood do it").

Right off the bat, you are dead wrong. You are confusing the word "libertarian" with "libertine". Here is the definition of "libertine" to clue you in:

Libertine
"A libertine is one devoid of most moral restraints, which are seen as unnecessary or undesirable, especially one who ignores or even spurns accepted morals and forms of behavior sanctioned by the larger society."​

Libertarianism is not "libertinism". Are you at all familiar with the philosophical roots of political libertarianism? Obviously not, so allow me to clue you in on that as well:

"Modern libertarianism has multiple roots. Perhaps the oldest is the minimal-government republicanism of the U.S.'s founding revolutionaries, especially Thomas Jefferson and the Anti-Federalists. Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill and the "classical liberals" of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries were another key influence."​

Source: http://catb.org/esr/faqs/libertarianism.html#A3

President Ronald Reagan (perhaps one of your heroes?), has been quoted as saying: "I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."

The word "libertarianism" comes from the word "liberty", and the Bible has a lot to say about liberty:

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword...on1=9&searchtype=all&bookset=10&limit=bookset

And here I thought God was sovereign over our lives. Maybe they have that listed somewhere else (boy, I can't seem to find God mentioned ANYWHERE in the Libertarian Party Platform, go figure).

In this lifetime, God is sovereign over your life if you choose to have God be sovereign over your life. Non-Christians, agnostics, atheists, and anyone else who doesn't believe what you believe has freedom of religion in this country under the Constitution--in case you haven't noticed!

1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

There are libertarians who are anti-abortion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarians_for_Life

 

[Granite]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:



Wow. lain:

Family Guy isn't for kids.

Here is what I know:

Granite's avatar is great. (the show kinda sucks now, though)

You are a tool.

It has kinda jumped the shark.

 

[Ktoyou]

It's a (worthless left wing progaganda machine) for "stoners and slackers".

Given the chance that some of the stoners and slackers have moved out of mothers basement and have reproduced and actually have their child(ren) living with them (chances are the girlfriend either had the "problem" aborted, or has custody of them while on welfare), do you really think that said stoner and slacker would care if their child watched said perverted tv program?

It is not your ideas, which is so objectionable, not that so much, rather it is your slow droning attitude. You reveal more about yourself than about who you pretend to be. No decent police officer would represent himself as such a miserable negative personality, If you treated the public as you treat others here, you would find yourself facing many complaints and failing probation, you would lose the job.

You need a new act; I suggest you present your views, as they are, with more a positive attitude.

 

[Newman]

Now we're getting somewhere. Libertarianism (also known as "if it feels goooood do it").

Wrong. First of all, it's a lowercase "l", not "L". Secondly, libertarianism has nothing to do with "if it feels good, do it". That's another -ism you are confusing with liberty: hedonism. If you want to attach some one-line slogan to libertarianism, I'd rather you use my quote attached at the bottom of each of my posts. Thanks.

Let's take a look at their party platform and see what "civil liberties" they defend:

Party platform? When did I or anyone else refer to the (misnomer) Libertarian Party as any representation of libertarian philosophy?

Preamble
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

And here I thought God was sovereign over our lives. Maybe they have that listed somewhere else (boy, I can't seem to find God mentioned ANYWHERE in the Libertarian Party Platform, go figure).

Where in the Holy Bible did God mandate an American political party? Besides, a quick search of the 67 page Republican party platform reveals that God is only mentioned twice, and even then only in personal remarks from GOP elites before the actual platform content begins.

You are right, though. God is sovereign over our lives. However, nothing I've said nor anything in libertarian philosophy negates that fact.

1.3 Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the
government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,
immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or
restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices
and personal relationships.

I would even go a step further and say that the government shouldn't even be in the business of recognizing marriages at all. That responsibility belongs with the church and is between the husband, his wife, and God. No government needed. Let the gays, perverts, and crazies be "married" to what/whoever they want (as long as it doesn't infringe on somebody's right to life, liberty, or private property, of course). I won't call it marriage. My church won't call it marriage. Done.

Ah yes, the big "c" word, "consent". As long as there is "consent" in any sexual act, it's OK. There's no such thing as a perversion as long as "consent" is applied. Afterall, it is MY BODY, and I can do with it what I want, right? (back to the sovereignty thing).

Once again you are confusing sinful things with illegal things. What is sinful by God's standards shouldn't necessarily be illegal by the state's standards.

1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

Everyone has a right to life. One of the three things a limited government should protect is life. Life begins at conception. Don't assign stances to me before you actually hear them from me.

Uh huh, murder is an "individual conscientious consideration" matter. No moral absolutes here, but then again if we're sovereign over our own bodies, we can do ANYTHING we want with it.

Wrong. Murder, just like a Seattle Conservative, is wrong. Illegal. Sinful. Both.

Further reading of their party platform will show that they're pro-pornography, pro-prostitution, of course pro-recreational narcotics, open borders, as well as trading with tyrants.
http://www.lp.org/platform

Hell yeah.
Pornography is sin. Pornography is not illegal.
Prostitution is sin. Prostitution should not be illegal.
Some drugs are sinful to use. All drugs should be legal to use.
Open borders. Check.
Free trade. Check.

Utopia at last.

Not while mindless brats like you are still around.

 

[annabenedetti]

:shocked: I'm more left that you?!? I gotta retake that test. :doh:

I always did think your "more right than left" was a little off-kilter. :chuckle:

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Wrong. First of all, it's a lowercase "l", not "L". Secondly, libertarianism has nothing to do with "if it feels good, do it". That's another -ism you are confusing with liberty: hedonism. If you want to attach some one-line slogan to libertarianism, I'd rather you use my quote attached at the bottom of each of my posts. Thanks.



Party platform? When did I or anyone else refer to the (misnomer) Libertarian Party as any representation of libertarian philosophy?



Where in the Holy Bible did God mandate an American political party? Besides, a quick search of the 67 page Republican party platform reveals that God is only mentioned twice, and even then only in personal remarks from GOP elites before the actual platform content begins.

You are right, though. God is sovereign over our lives. However, nothing I've said nor anything in libertarian philosophy negates that fact.



I would even go a step further and say that the government shouldn't even be in the business of recognizing marriages at all. That responsibility belongs with the church and is between the husband, his wife, and God. No government needed. Let the gays, perverts, and crazies be "married" to what/whoever they want (as long as it doesn't infringe on somebody's right to life, liberty, or private property, of course). I won't call it marriage. My church won't call it marriage. Done.



Once again you are confusing sinful things with illegal things. What is sinful by God's standards shouldn't necessarily be illegal by the state's standards.



Everyone has a right to life. One of the three things a limited government should protect is life. Life begins at conception. Don't assign stances to me before you actually hear them from me.



Wrong. Murder, just like a Seattle Conservative, is wrong. Illegal. Sinful. Both.



Hell yeah.
Pornography is sin. Pornography is not illegal.
Prostitution is sin. Prostitution should not be illegal.
Some drugs are sinful to use. All drugs should be legal to use.
Open borders. Check.
Free trade. Check.



Not while mindless brats like you are still around.

You're obviously a "Christian libertarian", (an oxymoron if there ever was one).

Wikipedia defines Christian libertarianism as follows: "Christian libertarianism is a term used by people to describe the synthesis of their Christian beliefs with their libertarian political philosophy. It is also a political philosophy in itself that has its roots in libertarianism and it is a political ideology to the extent that Christian libertarians promote their cause to others and join together as a movement. In general, Christian libertarians believe that Christians should not use government as a tool to control others' moral behavior or to initiate the use of force against others. They further believe these principles are supported by Christ's teaching and by the Bible.

According to the Reverend Andrew Sandlin while he was at The Chalcedon Foundation, Christian libertarianism is the view that mature individuals are permitted maximum freedom under God's law.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_libertarianism

"...Should not use government as a tool to control others moral behavior or to initiate the use of force against others."

Interesting, so when brother Ralph rapes and murders a woman, the congregation will build the gallows?

"According to the Reverend Andrew Sandlin while he was at The Chalcedon Foundation, Christian libertarianism is the view that mature individuals are permitted maximum freedom under God's law."

"Maximum freedom under God's law".

Let me guess. Smoke a little dope, watch a little porn, maybe have a little out of wedlock sex with Peggy Sue. It's OK, afterall, we are Christians and we have a "relationship with God".

More on the bogus ideology of Christian libertarianism later. I have a few other carp to fry first.

 

[worshippastor12]

States with front plates

States with front plates

Why is that ridiculous, if you don't mind my asking?

The only state I've seen require it is Texas, and that's mainly so if someone slams into you, they can't Reverse for two miles to keep you from getting their plate number.

Virgina, Ohio, and New York are just three others I can think of off the top of my head. It's just so they can charge you more.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

It is not your ideas, which is so objectionable, not that so much, rather it is your slow droning attitude. You reveal more about yourself than about who you pretend to be. No decent police officer would represent himself as such a miserable negative personality, If you treated the public as you treat others here, you would find yourself facing many complaints and failing probation, you would lose the job.

You need a new act; I suggest you present your views, as they are, with more a positive attitude.

I don't follow head banging migraine so-called music. Whose your avatar of? (I'd like to know what kind of person I'm taking advice from).

Back to Fido's idol. I posted 3 articles that exposed "The Family Guy" as a left wing proganda tool.

Address those issues, and you can play Dr. Freud later.

 

[Ktoyou]

I don't follow head banging migraine so-called music. Whose your avatar of? (I'd like to know what kind of person I'm taking advice from).

Back to Fido's idol. I posted 3 articles that exposed "The Family Guy" as a left wing proganda tool.

Address those issues, and you can play Dr. Freud later.

Oh oh, bad attitude, paying too much attention to an avatar, neglecting to read profile information. :kookoo:

 

[MrRadish]

:rotfl:

What a glorious exchange. Irony in its purest form.

 

[Quincy]

Here are my stats on that latest quiz.

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 100%

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 20%

I guess I'm more liberal than I thought if these quizes are to be believed but when I think about it the only things right wing about me is opposing abortion and being for the right to own guns. So makes sense.