toldailytopic: Racism. Should people have the right to be racist?

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Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 19th, 2009 10:05 AM


toldailytopic: Racism. Should people have the right to be racist? If so, how far should those rights extend?






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DocJohnson

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Yes.

As Thomas Jefferson said, "...the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions..."

Opinions, whether right or wrong, cannot be controlled, regulated, or outlawed. When those opinions turn to actions, however, only then can we hold the individual accountable.
 

Aimiel

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The first amendment supercedes any law which might attempt to overthrow it. Saying what one wishes is our protected right in the USA, even if we're wrong.
 

chrysostom

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Yes.

As Thomas Jefferson said, "...the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions..."

Opinions, whether right or wrong, cannot be controlled, regulated, or outlawed. When those opinions turn to actions, however, only then can we hold the individual accountable.

what about speech?

do you include that in actions?
 

MaryContrary

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Yes, people have to right to be both stupid and foolish. And so they have the right to be racist. Bigoted even.

We (should) have the right to associate with whom we chose, employ whom we chose, do business with whom we chose and even discriminate against whom we chose. These rights (should) extend to everyone.

I think the confusion here stems from someone, somewhere having deciding to create the "right" to be free of discrimination, as if rights could be created by fiat. Granted, it's worked well in combating the violations of human rights by the runaway bigotry of the past but now we're stuck with a ridiculous idea we can't seem to shake lose of. And so our efforts to grow, as a society, out of this particular stupidity have been stifled here just on the other side of that.

Our society should have long since reached the fabled "post-racist" mentality. I'm convinced we're stuck where we are because we can't get past this one particular point. By denying ourselves and one another that natural inclination toward discrimination, rather than opposing it with wisdom and reason, we create bitterness and anger, and inevitably bigotry.

In a post-racist world a person who refuses to do business with those of a particular race is an idiot. He's a weirdo you probably wouldn't be wise to do business with yourself. Anyone dumb enough to cull their own market on such a meaningless basis isn't going to be in business long.

In our modern world that man is forced to do business with those he'd much rather not. That makes him bitter and angry toward whomever he's forced to do business with. Other business people see this and feel threatened. They may be forced to do business against their own determination themselves. And finally those whom the man have been forced to do business with are themselves forced into a position where they feel like victims who require championing, as if they have no power to champion themselves.

I can't see how this can possibly be considered an acceptable model.
 

DocJohnson

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what about speech?

do you include that in actions?

Not necessarily.

For instance, there's nothing wrong with simply calling someone a racial slur or stating that you can't stand a particular nationality or race.

If you take that a step further and incite a mob to beat up an individual because of his nationality or race, then you should absolutely be held accountable.
 

Nathon Detroit

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Yes.

As Thomas Jefferson said, "...the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions..."

Opinions, whether right or wrong, cannot be controlled, regulated, or outlawed. When those opinions turn to actions, however, only then can we hold the individual accountable.
If I own my own business or my own apartment complex, should I have the right to not hire or not lease to a person based on race?
 

chatmaggot

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Why does it matter what the constitution says about the issue or any other document beside God's Word?
 

Son of Jack

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Why does it matter what the constitution says about the issue or any other document beside God's Word?

Right!! I could care less about the constitution. God has said that all people are made in God's image, and that all people are one in Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:28). As such, I have no right to discriminate or have racial prejudices.
 

DocJohnson

New member
If I own my own business or my own apartment complex, should I have the right to not hire or not lease to a person based on race?

Not according to the Law.

I'm sure people find ways around it, though.

Why would you want to work for or even live near someone who hates you?
 

Poly

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Not according to the Law.

I'm sure people find ways around it, though.

Why would you want to work for or even live near someone who hates you?

My guess is nobody would want to do this.

But considering this outside of our laws, does anybody have the right to hire or not hire somebody based on race?
 

Nathon Detroit

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Not according to the Law.

I'm sure people find ways around it, though.

Why would you want to work for or even live near someone who hates you?
I didn't ask you about the law. I am asking you what YOU think.

SHOULD it be legal for me to discriminate within my own personal business?

Let me make it more simple....

Lets assume you need your lawn mowed and you want to pay somebody to do it. SHOULD you have the right to pick your vendor based on any criteria you choose?
 

DocJohnson

New member
My guess is nobody would want to do this.

But, law or no law, does somebody have the right to hire or not hire somebody based on race?

Again, not according to the Law.

I'm not advocating that anyone should judge another person based solely on their body type, eye color, hair color, or skin color. A person may have a good reason for hiring someone based on those factors that doesn't have anything to do with hatred, though.

:idunno:
 
Free to choose

Free to choose

Yes, people have to right to be both stupid and foolish. And so they have the right to be racist. Bigoted even.

We (should) have the right to associate with whom we chose, employ whom we chose, do business with whom we chose and even discriminate against whom we chose. These rights (should) extend to everyone.

I think the confusion here stems from someone, somewhere having deciding to create the "right" to be free of discrimination, as if rights could be created by fiat. Granted, it's worked well in combating the violations of human rights by the runaway bigotry of the past but now we're stuck with a ridiculous idea we can't seem to shake lose of. And so our efforts to grow, as a society, out of this particular stupidity have been stifled here just on the other side of that.

Our society should have long since reached the fabled "post-racist" mentality. I'm convinced we're stuck where we are because we can't get past this one particular point. By denying ourselves and one another that natural inclination toward discrimination, rather than opposing it with wisdom and reason, we create bitterness and anger, and inevitably bigotry.

In a post-racist world a person who refuses to do business with those of a particular race is an idiot. He's a weirdo you probably wouldn't be wise to do business with yourself. Anyone dumb enough to cull their own market on such a meaningless basis isn't going to be in business long.

In our modern world that man is forced to do business with those he'd much rather not. That makes him bitter and angry toward whomever he's forced to do business with. Other business people see this and feel threatened. They may be forced to do business against their own determination themselves. And finally those whom the man have been forced to do business with are themselves forced into a position where they feel like victims who require championing, as if they have no power to champion themselves.

I can't see how this can possibly be considered an acceptable model.

Choice is a major part of freedom.
If someone else chooses for us then we are not free.
We must choose how we will live and live with the choices we make.
Authority and accountability must go hand in hand.
Authority without accountability is tyranny.
Being accountable for something someone else did is injustice.
The more authority that is removed the more one becomes the slave to the one usurping their authority.
Bad stuff happens.
In the attempt to stop some bad things from happening, we open the door to some of the worst things that have ever happened in the history of the world, widespread tyrannical oppression and destruction.
By making someone else do what I think best, I must be willing to let someone else make me do what they think is best, or leave the authority where it belongs, with the person that will have to live with the problems they create for themselves by their own choices.
 

DocJohnson

New member
Lets assume you need your lawn mowed and you want to pay somebody to do it. SHOULD you have the right to pick your vendor based on any criteria you choose?

Aside from the Law, it is immoral to judge a person based solely on their race or nationality. Should a person have the right to be immoral in this case? You have to ask, then, whether or not that immorality affects anyone else. If you choose a Mexican over an Italian, who is affected?
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Aside from the Law, it is immoral to judge a person based solely on their race or nationality. Should a person have the right to be immoral in this case? You have to ask, then, whether or not that immorality affects anyone else. If you choose a Mexican over a Caucasian, who is affected?
Dude... could you just answer the question? It's not gonna bite you.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
If I own my own business or my own apartment complex, should I have the right to not hire or not lease to a person based on race?
I don't believe so. Nor for sex, religion or nationality. As someone has stated, there are ways around it, and those who hate already know how to skirt the law, we don't need to lend them any help here; but they are going to continue their hatred, and express it every chance they get. When you add 'sexual preference' to the list, you're stepping on people's right to free practice of religion, though. If I own a duplex, one apartment being used as a daycare, and don't want to rent the other to a queer, I should have a right to use my common sense.
 
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