toldailytopic: Racism. Should people have the right to be racist?

[elohiym]

I found this story about a WW II vet who fought in WW II, was captured by the Japanese, and tortured. After the war he went to Japan as a missionary, even leading a pilot who bombed Pearl Harbor to Christ.

I've watched an interview with that man. Awesome story; great message.

 

[elohiym]

Yes, he was purposely discriminating against the Gentile at first... but it wasn't a racist gesture... it was a religious one.

race (noun) - a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock.

racism (noun) - racial prejudice or discrimination

He was discriminating against anyone who was not of Israel. It was, by definition, racial discrimination for a purpose--racism.

If you don't agree, then let's just agree to disagree. I've said all I have to say on the matter.

 

[DocJohnson]

race (noun) - a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock.

racism (noun) - racial prejudice or discrimination

He was discriminating against anyone who was not of Israel. It was, by definition, racial discrimination for a purpose--racism.

If you don't agree, then let's just agree to disagree. I've said all I have to say on the matter.

This goes back to what Knight said earlier...

...racism in and of itself must be morally neutral. It's the motivation behind racism and the degree you act on that racism that may or may not be immoral.

It was his motivation for discriminating... which was purely religious.

 

[Arthur Brain]

We like brief posts here, when practical. The verse I quoted in context proves that, by definition, Jesus was a racist.

Garbage. You quote one sentence out of a passage and attempt to use it to justify the ridiculous notion that Jesus was bound by the prejudices formulated by men? Is this the same Jesus who gave us the parable of the good samaritan (highly relevant) and associated with social outcasts? Get real.

Right. He called her god, but the author of that book was dyslexic. Silly me. lain:

Silly you indeed. Jesus doesn't call the woman a dog in that passage at all. :doh:

That's entirely irrelevant to my point. Jesus only went to the lost house of Israel; he was discriminating against all other nations at that time for a purpose. It's racism by definition.

So Jesus was discriminating against the canaanites? There's not many
racists who insult a person and then do them a favour straight afterwards. lain:

The Bible is full of examples where God practices racial discrimination. Try reading the Bible instead of being a bigot towards racism.

There is ultimately only one race. You don't find God discriminating towards people based on colour, creed etc. The bible is full of examples of Jesus preaching against prejudice. The passage you quoted from doesn't cut it at all.

 

[MaryContrary]

... the ridiculous notion that Jesus was bound by the prejudices formulated by men?

Good grief, AB. Who suggested any such thing? Why are you pulling this out of your ear? That you have to inflate it out to this ridiculous degree should have been a major clue that you're not being objective at all!

And the rest of your rant, too. Why are you having so much trouble differentiating between simply bringing a message to a specific race of people in a specific context and blind, irrational, racial hatred?

Christ specifically called this woman a "little dog" (Yes! He did!) quite obviously to provoke her to humble herself in the way that she did, thus proving her faith and making the whole incident worthy of being included in scripture.

I can't imagine why you fanatically insist on characterizing this as some kind of racially bigoted incident, then railing against that characterization. :squint:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Seriously, though, I can understand your father's view based on his personal experience. Sounds like he saw some nasty fighting in Korea. But there is a time to forgive and move on, not for the sake of Koreans, but for your father. Holding on to such feelings after nearly 60 years is not good for him. What kind of conversations have you had with him, Knight? Do you think it's an issue of forgiveness?

Like I said, I don't think my dad harbors any ill will towards Koreans. It's his vocabulary and vernacular that is forever altered.

The point I was making is that racism isn't always something that evil or wicked. Sometimes, racism is merely a matter of our own life experiences. Yet in today's world if you say just the wrong thing you will be forever marginalized.

 

[noguru]

I already covered that. Read up, please.

Oh I am so sorry to bother you with an issue that has already been covered. Could you please forgive my oversight?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Um...yes He did. Maybe the "little dog" pejorative didn't carry the same meaning then that it does today. Still clearly a diminutive and not at all complimentary term to apply to someone.

Um, no He doesn't. Show me where Jesus calls the woman a dog. It's not there Mary. Saying that it isn't right to deprive children of food in order to feed dogs isn't the same thing as calling someone a canine.

By which He affirmed even a "little dog" can have faith enough to impress Him. Enough even that He'd make an exception to His until then firm position that He had not come for Gentiles. That He would not even share the Gospel with them. There's a lesson here you're missing over the sound of those politically correct warning bells and whistles going off in your head.
Objective assessment. Try it. You might discover you've confused hateful bigotry with a simple act of racial discrimination.

His "until then firm position"? What, do you think that Jesus was surprised and taken aback by the woman? In case you missed it Jesus died for the world as far as I'm aware, not just for a select race. Your 'political correctness' waffle is just laughable. :e4e:

 

[Son of Jack]

The point I was making is that racism isn't always something that evil or wicked. Sometimes, racism is merely a matter of our own life experiences. Yet in today's world if you say just the wrong thing you will be forever marginalized.

I'm having trouble understanding how racism, which is a legally-protected right, isn't immoral or evil or wicked. Jesus made a point of saying that sin starts in the heart or the thoughts (Matthew 5-7 comes to mind). If that is true of adultery and murder, it would seem to hold with racist thoughts and actions, no? Lawful does not equal moral.

 

[elohiym]

Show me where Jesus calls the woman a dog.

Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children‘s bread, and to cast it to dogs.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I'm having trouble understanding how racism, which is a legally-protected right, isn't immoral or evil or wicked. Jesus made a point of saying that sin starts in the heart or the thoughts (Matthew 5-7 comes to mind). If that is true of adultery and murder, it would seem to hold with racist thoughts and actions, no? Lawful does not equal moral.

That's the point of this thread.

It isn't a sin to be racist.

Not only is it not necessarily sinful, it's often times good! (i.e., Mexican people working in a Mexican food restaurant is a good thing, not a bad thing.)

 

[DocJohnson]

Oh I am so sorry to bother you with an issue that has already been covered. Could you please forgive my oversight?

Of course. I'm a very understanding and forgiving person.

 

[noguru]

Like I said, I don't think my dad harbors any ill will towards Koreans. It's his vocabulary and vernacular that is forever altered.

The point I was making is that racism isn't always something that evil or wicked. Sometimes, racism is merely a matter of our own life experiences. Yet in today's world if you say just the wrong thing you will be forever marginalized.

Well not by me. I think that the whole pc movement is meant to legislate what any person with consideration for others should already know. I know many people who make racial slurrs, but their actions demonstrate that they are actually considerate of all people.

Stereotypes are another area where people overreact. Stereotypes often have some basis in reality. To recognize that certain groups of people have certain characteriistics, whether those are physical or behavioral, is not an insult to that group.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Good grief, AB. Who suggested any such thing? Why are you pulling this out of your ear? That you have to inflate it out to this ridiculous degree should have been a major clue that you're not being objective at all!

And the rest of your rant, too. Why are you having so much trouble differentiating between simply bringing a message to a specific race of people in a specific context and blind, irrational, racial hatred?

Christ specifically called this woman a "little dog" (Yes! He did!) quite obviously to provoke her to humble herself in the way that she did, thus proving her faith and making the whole incident worthy of being included in scripture.

I can't imagine why you fanatically insist on characterizing this as some kind of racially bigoted incident, then railing against that characterization. :squint:

Jesus did not call the woman a dog! Geez, this is similar to those who use this passage to justify their petty insults by trying to insinuate that Jesus did the same :doh:

The woman was already humbled enough to seek Jesus for the sake of her daughter!!

I don't regard it as a 'racial' incident at all so how can I be fanatically characterizing it as one? :idunno:

 

[MaryContrary]

Um, no He doesn't. Show me where Jesus calls the woman a dog. It's not there Mary. Saying that it isn't right to deprive children of food in order to feed dogs isn't the same thing as calling someone a canine.

Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children‘s bread, and to cast it to dogs.

If you're going to pretend obviously comparing the woman to a "little dog" doesn't qualify as "calling" her a little dog then I'm just going to go ahead and call bull here. :nono:

His "until then firm position"? What, do you think that Jesus was surprised and taken aback by the woman? In case you missed it Jesus died for the world as far as I'm aware, not just for a select race. Your 'political correctness' waffle is just laughable. :e4e:

No one's talking about who He died for. We're talking about who He came to bring to Gospel to. Quite consistently, before and after this incident, with almost no exception (and all of them as notable as this one) it was to the Jew only.

Why don't you go find out what you're talking about before you pretend you know what you're talking about. :mmph:

 

[elohiym]

Show me where Jesus calls the woman a dog.

I would show you, but it's not meet for me to take time from my children to post to idiots.

Get is now, dude? lain:

Or do you think I didn't just call you an idiot? :idunno:

 

[Son of Jack]

That's the point of this thread.

It isn't a sin to be racist.

Not only is it not necessarily sinful, it's often times good! (i.e., Mexican people working in a Mexican food restaurant is a good thing, not a bad thing.)

You and I have a completely different definition of racism and racist then. As I understand it, racism implies a devaluation of the individual on the basis of something that isn't a choice. That's ridiculous. No way that it is right and GOOD to devalue an individual on a racial basis.

 

[DocJohnson]

Um, no He doesn't. Show me where Jesus calls the woman a dog.

He does, but it's not meant as a derogative statement any more than calling the Jews "sheep" is meant to be derogative.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Stereotypes are another area where people overreact. Stereotypes often have some basis in reality. To recognize that certain groups of people have certain characteriistics, whether those are physical or behavioral, is not an insult to that group.

That's a great point and I agree completely. My mom is 100% Italian and there are more stereotypes about Italians than any other group (I think). It doesn't bother me at all. Many stereotypes about Italians are actually very accurate.

 

[noguru]

That's the point of this thread.

It isn't a sin to be racist.

Not only is it not necessarily sinful, it's often times good! (i.e., Mexican people working in a Mexican food restaurant is a good thing, not a bad thing.)

Is it a sin to be inconsiderate of others? If racism is the result of being inconsiderate then that is the only question that needs to be answered. I think different Christians have differing views on whether being inconsiderate is a sin or not.