toldailytopic: Should the use of performance-enhancing drugs in sport be legalized?

[kmoney]

Without hard work performance enhancers enhance nothing. The athlete still has to do all the work to build all the muscle and stamina, and make other structural improvements - the enhancers just make it faster and easier to heal from the strain, increase the amount of time that the athlete can do the hard work, and improve the efficiency of the body in training.

So the natural ability has to already be in place and the willingness to work extra hard for added hours is still needed when using performance enhancers.

So it is a false dichotomy - natural ability vs. enhanced ability.

Of course. I wouldn't argue otherwise. No one would say that someone like Bonds would have been a terrible hitter without steroids. Or McGwire. They both would have been very good baseball players anyway. They had natural talent and put in the hard work. Look at Clemens, he took stuff but still had one of the hardest work ethics when it came to working out and practicing. But, when comparing someone like Griffey Jr., who (at least I hope not) has not used anything artificial, to someone like Bonds, who almost definitely did use something artificial to gain an advantage, I will take Griffey Jr. Maybe it would have been more accurate to say only natural talent vs. enhanced natural talent.

Some of the people who have lower numbers will start to be seen in a greater light when compared to all these people who took drugs. Now the numbers don't look as great.

 

[Ktoyou]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for January 14th, 2010 11:55 AM

toldailytopic: Should the use of performance-enhancing drugs in sport be legalized?

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I do not think it is such a good idea.

Some reasons already stated: It would force other athletes to use the drugs.

I would think there would be health problems down the line.

 

[bybee]

Agreed!

Agreed!

Absolutely not. It would force everyone to take them just to be competitive, and it's fairly well established that taking steroids is like playing Russian Roulette.

You are absolutely correct! Not only are steroids extremely damaging to the athlete, but they also turn some persons into very dangerous, very strong, very aggressive and angry people. bybee

 

[chrysostom]

I do not think it is such a good idea.

Some reasons already stated: It would force other athletes to use the drugs.

I would think there would be health problems down the line.

so you are going to spend our tax dollars to protect million dollar athletes?

 

[TomO]

Time to go to the Gym.....better load up on my performance enhancing drugs & supplements of choice. lain:

 

[Traditio]

Does that include viagra?

 

[TomO]

Does that include viagra?

Sure....great for NO boosting (dialation of blood vessels).

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article4187778.ece

 

[nicholsmom]

Quite simple really ... IF you don't have the necessary assets to compete in sports or pageants, then you shouldn't be in the competition.

No drug can get the athlete to pro-level, so there is no question of natural ability. The enhancement drugs just push the peak higher. I have no problem with that, and I don't call it cheating because it isn't.

The only reason that performance enhancers are seen as illicit is because they've been made illegal by people who are not doctors and who want to control other people's lives. There is no more danger in taking them than in taking any prescription medication - all have side effects, many have limits on time of use and precautions on damage that must be assessed regularly. I have a friend who was on a drug for awhile (not performance enhancement) who had to be tested for eye damage every quarter, other drugs require periodic testing for liver damage, and the like. It's a balancing act for the doctor and the patient.

Athletes don't have a death wish any more than do the general population, nor are they interested in causing their bodies harm (their bodies provide that bread and butter), so we needn't worry that they will go "doctor shopping" or anything stupid like that. The main reason for "doctor shopping" nowadays is for things that are over-regulated that ought not to be - therapeutic marijuana, and performance enhancers among them.

Since when are you for the government getting between the patient and doctor? Doesn't sound like you.

And as to cheating - how is it cheating? I'm not getting that. It's like saying that using a calculator on a Physics test is cheating, or using a car to get to town faster and carry more groceries is cheating. It isn't cheating to use a tool.

Beeks is wrong about athletes not working as hard when they are using enhancers - it's a common misconception. These guys are like him - they work as hard as they possibly can, and when they take the enhancers, it doesn't change that - they work harder because they can. Their personalities make them hard workers - their natural performance proves that out, and when they pick up that tool, they just work harder. I can't see that as cheating.

 

[nicholsmom]

That's just wrong. Any athlete who relies on raw strength and bulk can benefit from steroids. I used to lift weights for fun - but I liked to lift as much as possible. I hit a plateau after a few years, and that was it, no matter what I did, I didn't go any further. Meanwhile people that we on the juice blew right by me. I didn't care enough to ever consider steroids, but obviously some people did.

It sounds to me like you did care enough to be angry about not being able to compete. You sound like you care very much.

But it was well known in the weight rooms that if you didn't juice up, forget about any kind of competitive life in either power lifting or body building.

I'm in a power-lifting league that is drug-tested. You could do that too - anyone can do that, as long as you are only after what you can do without tools.

Football players are in pretty much the same boat, from what I've heard from people that played in in college. And I'd lay odds that pro basketball players are too, from the way they look now, compared to in the 60's and 70's. The bottom line is - if some do it, all have to do it, if they want to be in the elite class... and in some sports, they have to do it if they even want to be in the game in the first place.

Work with what God gave you, or stay out.

The difference between you and me, Beeks, is that this truth doesn't bother me. I see it as professionals using the tools available to them to do their best. They wouldn't be pros if they didn't have the natural ability in the first place - that ability is more than just strength and speed. They have not only the natural strength and speed, but the work ethic, the innate understanding of their sport, the drive to excel, without which they'd get nowhere professionally even with the enhancers.

I see performance enhancers as a tool. In the hands of a professional, it can make a big difference; in the hands of a wannabe, it can't. Like a calculator won't help you pass your Physics exam unless you already know the Physics and the Calculus and understand your tool - a calculator.

 

[Ps82]

I have a question - Since I am not a sports enthusiast this is probably going to be a duh-type question.

I have been known to take steroids for various ailments, and they did make me feel better and helped me heal quickly. I don't know that they made me stronger or more talented; therefore, what is so wrong for an athlete to be taking doctor prescribed steroids for the pains they are suffering while they are continuing to play?

Maybe I have the truth about steroids all wrong. That's why I'm asking.

 

[nicholsmom]

Is lasik eye surgery performance enhancement? If eyesight matters to a sport, then yes it is. Is it natural? Absolutely not. Is it wrong? Not a chance. Without the surgery, the athlete makes the grade when he is a professional. Tiger was the best before the surgery, and after it, he was better. That's not cheating, it's smart business and it's making the best better (4-H motto ). I can't see anything wrong with that.

If a person is highly competitive, he gets bugged by people who are better than he is - it's human nature. We all look at the professional athletes with a bit of envy - they are stronger and faster than we are, and make loads of money for what looks like playing. Irks us a bit. So when we find out that they've been taking enhancers we might just crow and point and say "THAT'S the only reason for his success! If I weren't so pure, I'd be the one on that team - I'd be the one with the mansion and the Lamborghini. He cheated!" But it isn't true, and somewhere down inside we know it isn't true. The professional athlete has what we spectators have not - the drive, the natural ability, the passion for the sport that brings deep understanding and draws them to the top of the heap. It is why we admire them; why we envy them; why children emulate them. Let's be magnanimous and rejoice in their victories, and not cast stones at their use of the tools available for them to become truly great in their sport. I look at athletes who can lift insane amounts of weight and stand in awe, knowing what sort of grit and hard work and sacrifice it takes to get there - and I don't care if enhancers were needed to find the limit of that grit, hard work, and sacrifice.

I know I'm strange, but surely there are those among us who would agree.

 

[kmoney]

I have a question - Since I am not a sports enthusiast this is probably going to be a duh-type question.

I have been known to take steroids for various ailments, and they did make me feel better and helped me heal quickly. I don't know that they made me stronger or more talented; therefore, what is so wrong for an athlete to be taking doctor prescribed steroids for the pains they are suffering while they are continuing to play?

Maybe I have the truth about steroids all wrong. That's why I'm asking.

Quicker recovery is one reason why athletes take drugs, but drugs can also help athletes get stronger, faster, etc., and I think that's the part that most people are against.

 

[nicholsmom]

Quicker recovery is one reason why athletes take drugs, but drugs can also help athletes get stronger, faster, etc., and I think that's the part that most people are against.

No, PS was right - the steroids don't make a person stronger or faster, they help them recover faster from harder, longer workouts. It is the harder, longer workouts that make them stronger and faster. The enhancers make it possible for them to have those harder, longer workouts. So where is the argument? Are we really against harder work?

 

[kmoney]

No, PS was right - the steroids don't make a person stronger or faster, they help them recover faster from harder, longer workouts. It is the harder, longer workouts that make them stronger and faster. The enhancers make it possible for them to have those harder, longer workouts. So where is the argument? Are we really against harder work?

I thought there was more to steroids than just quick recovery, so it appears I was mistaken. However, it doesn't really change my view. And no, I'm not against hard work. lain:

 

[Ps82]

No, PS was right - the steroids don't make a person stronger or faster, they help them recover faster from harder, longer workouts. It is the harder, longer workouts that make them stronger and faster. The enhancers make it possible for them to have those harder, longer workouts. So where is the argument? Are we really against harder work?

Well, I certainly agree with your comment... and this is the way I've personally experienced steroids:
If anyone has every gone through physical therapy for a frozen shoulder without a steroid shot, then they know how difficult, how long, and how expensive their healing process is.

But with a steroid shot one can work out and stretch that shoulder much more effectively, because the pain during the stretching is lessened. I was not suddenly super-natural in ability ... I still had very little mobility in my arm, but with less pain and a better work out I healed quickly.

Now, I've heard that they are not good for one's health when used too often... so I think there is a reason to regulate their use for the protection of the athlete.

 

[Mr. Beeks]

Beeks is wrong about athletes not working as hard when they are using enhancers - it's a common misconception. These guys are like him - they work as hard as they possibly can, and when they take the enhancers, it doesn't change that - they work harder because they can. Their personalities make them hard workers - their natural performance proves that out, and when they pick up that tool, they just work harder. I can't see that as cheating.

I was there. I worked out side by side with people that were on steroids. I work with a guy that played football in college who was around them, another of my friends also was. I used to read about them quite a bit due to the magazines I subscribed to. I still read about them due to the newspaper I subscribe to. Fact is, they don't have to work as hard to do better than natural athletes... and most of them don't. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but most of them simply don't.

You seem to place professional athletes on some sort of pedestal. Why?

 

[Mr. Beeks]

It sounds to me like you did care enough to be angry about not being able to compete. You sound like you care very much.

I didn't care to compete, but I did care that I was broad-brushed as being "one of them" (due to my size and strength - I worked out very hard for several years), even though I never even considered taking the drugs. Now I care that people rationalize the fact that taking performance enhancing drugs is OK. None of these drugs have been around long enough to know what they'll do to people 20-40 years down the road. It's absolute folly to consider messing with the body's chemistry just to win a few trophies or medal... or money for a few years.

I'm in a power-lifting league that is drug-tested. You could do that too - anyone can do that, as long as you are only after what you can do without tools.

A-ha. Now I know why you're rationalizing it all. Everybody knows that anybody can get around drug testing. It's a joke.

The difference between you and me, Beeks, is that this truth doesn't bother me. I see it as professionals using the tools available to them to do their best. They wouldn't be pros if they didn't have the natural ability in the first place - that ability is more than just strength and speed. They have not only the natural strength and speed, but the work ethic, the innate understanding of their sport, the drive to excel, without which they'd get nowhere professionally even with the enhancers.

No, the difference between you and me seems to be that I respect honesty in all professions, and that includes athletics. People should compete with the bodies that God gave them. The people with the natural abilities would still go well if nobody in their profession did the drugs. If they want to start their own "burn out young in a flame of glory" league, then do that. That way, everybody isn't forced to wreck their bodies if they want to compete with them.

I see performance enhancers as a tool. In the hands of a professional, it can make a big difference; in the hands of a wannabe, it can't. Like a calculator won't help you pass your Physics exam unless you already know the Physics and the Calculus and understand your tool - a calculator.

I agree with that analogy, except it's a 'tool' that can and does wreck bodies and the lives of people around the users. It's also a 'tool' that forces other athletes to use it, just to 'get into the game'.

Not of the least of things to consider as Christians is that our bodies are temples of God's, and we're specifically told to stay away from drugs, and there was no exclusions for drugs that 'enhance physical abilities' - which is another thing that doesn't impress God.

 

[nicholsmom]

A-ha. Now I know why you're rationalizing it all. Everybody knows that anybody can get around drug testing. It's a joke.

I resent this implication. Are you really suggesting that I'm a rule-breaker? A cheat? Or that others in my organization are cheats? That is way out of line, Beeks.

I compete in an organization that is full of Christians who are committed to doing all they can physically without the enhancers. You should see one of these competitions - about 80 percent of the competitors get together for prayer at the beginning; they are all rooting for each other throughout the competition. Great bunch of people who would never be pros, but still like to compete.

I agree with that analogy, except it's a 'tool' that can and does wreck bodies and the lives of people around the users.

Lots of things "can" wreck bodies and lives, Beeks - stuff that is legal and common is far more likely to do that than steroid use under the care of a competent doctor: driving in the fog, overeating, sedentary life-style, promiscuity, smoking and alcohol abuse to name just a few. Careful people can manage some steroid use under the care of a doctor; careful people can drive in the fog safely; they can overeat on holidays and lay about on occasion; they can enjoy sex inside the security of marriage; they can enjoy an occasional alcoholic beverage - smoking, I'd say is mostly all bad - maybe cigars on occasion? The key is moderation and taking the advise of the professionals (doctors in this case). And because they do have risk, that ought not to be taken lightly; performance enhancing hormones ought to be taken only by professional athletes at the top of their game, not by anyone else. But that's just my personal opinion and not to be construed as a recommendation for regulation.

Not of the least of things to consider as Christians is that our bodies are temples of God's, and we're specifically told to stay away from drugs, and there was no exclusions for drugs that 'enhance physical abilities' - which is another thing that doesn't impress God.

I couldn't disagree more. We're not talking about cocaine or heroin here - we're talking about bio-identical hormones - as close to the stuff our bodies already make as possible. I take thyroid - am I a bad Christian? That is a hormone - an anabolic hormone, but without it my whole family suffers from my lack - I could go insane without it. My body is a temple, so I give it what it needs to thrive.

If we can't enhance physical abilities without incurring the wrath of God, then we'd better give up our nice running shoes and our vitamin D supplements; we'd better give up working out too...

and make-up, and bras, and knee braces, and massage, and tennis elbow braces...

 

[BabyChristian]

I resent this implication. Are you really suggesting that I'm a rule-breaker? A cheat? Or that others in my organization are cheats? That is way out of line, Beeks.

I compete in an organization that is full of Christians who are committed to doing all they can physically without the enhancers. You should see one of these competitions - about 80 percent of the competitors get together for prayer at the beginning; they are all rooting for each other throughout the competition. Great bunch of people who would never be pros, but still like to compete.


Lots of things "can" wreck bodies and lives, Beeks - stuff that is legal and common is far more likely to do that than steroid use under the care of a competent doctor: driving in the fog, overeating, sedentary life-style, promiscuity, smoking and alcohol abuse to name just a few. Careful people can manage some steroid use under the care of a doctor; careful people can drive in the fog safely; they can overeat on holidays and lay about on occasion; they can enjoy sex inside the security of marriage; they can enjoy an occasional alcoholic beverage - smoking, I'd say is mostly all bad - maybe cigars on occasion? The key is moderation and taking the advise of the professionals (doctors in this case). And because they do have risk, that ought not to be taken lightly; performance enhancing hormones ought to be taken only by professional athletes at the top of their game, not by anyone else. But that's just my personal opinion and not to be construed as a recommendation for regulation.

I couldn't disagree more. We're not talking about cocaine or heroin here - we're talking about bio-identical hormones - as close to the stuff our bodies already make as possible. I take thyroid - am I a bad Christian? That is a hormone - an anabolic hormone, but without it my whole family suffers from my lack - I could go insane without it. My body is a temple, so I give it what it needs to thrive.

If we can't enhance physical abilities without incurring the wrath of God, then we'd better give up our nice running shoes and our vitamin D supplements; we'd better give up working out too...

and make-up, and bras, and knee braces, and massage, and tennis elbow braces...

I'm a better driver when I'm drinking alcohol too. :cheers: The more I drink, the better I drive. Just ask the police, they'll tell ya. :crackup:

I agree with my husband and I can't believe you rationalize your behavior. Just because you're all praying doesn't mean you're not rationalizing because you certainly are.

Enhancing physical abilities with chemicals? It's not a necessity, it's a new luxury, these bioidentical hormones and I know all about them.

They are not FDA approved, not the the FDA is honest anyway (I have HUGE issues about the FDA, they're all in each other's pockets, the Drs., Pharmaceutical companies and Pharmacies) but no one knows the long term effects of them and won't for a long time. For me, I do it out of necessity right now, not because I want to be an athlete.

I'm on bioidentical hormones too so I'm not down on them but I'm on them so I can feign sanity while I'm peri- menopausal, not because I want to excel at a sport.

 

[Mr. Beeks]

I resent this implication. Are you really suggesting that I'm a rule-breaker? A cheat? Or that others in my organization are cheats? That is way out of line, Beeks.

No, I'm implying that maybe you've bought into that old body-builder's line "steroids can't make a Chihuahua into a Great Dane" in order to justify their use of a drug that gives them an advantage over people who won't. It may not turn someone into something they can never be, but it can also take some people a lot further than they'd ever go on their own - and probably at someone's expense who didn't want to morph their body into something other than what God gave them.

I compete in an organization that is full of Christians who are committed to doing all they can physically without the enhancers. You should see one of these competitions - about 80 percent of the competitors get together for prayer at the beginning; they are all rooting for each other throughout the competition. Great bunch of people who would never be pros, but still like to compete.

Great, so why shouldn't everyone follow the rules and compete and train naturally?

Lots of things "can" wreck bodies and lives, Beeks - stuff that is legal and common is far more likely to do that than steroid use under the care of a competent doctor: driving in the fog, overeating, sedentary life-style, promiscuity, smoking and alcohol abuse to name just a few. Careful people can manage some steroid use under the care of a doctor; careful people can drive in the fog safely; they can overeat on holidays and lay about on occasion; they can enjoy sex inside the security of marriage; they can enjoy an occasional alcoholic beverage - smoking, I'd say is mostly all bad - maybe cigars on occasion? The key is moderation and taking the advise of the professionals (doctors in this case). And because they do have risk, that ought not to be taken lightly; performance enhancing hormones ought to be taken only by professional athletes at the top of their game, not by anyone else. But that's just my personal opinion and not to be construed as a recommendation for regulation.

It's still forcing people to take them that might not otherwise even consider it. If one person does it, he or she gains an advantage and sets the bar higher for everyone else. Read about the history of steroids, when doctors first gave them to bodybuilders... the doctors couldn't figure out why they (the weight lifters) were making bigger gains than expected, and why the effects didn't wear off like they should have when they stopped giving them to them. It turned out that the body builders liked them so much, that they immediately found other sources of the drugs, and were taking them on their own, without the doctor's knowledge. Even if doctors were to administer them as you say - you don't think that there aren't some who would succumb to bribes and give the athletes what they want?

I couldn't disagree more. We're not talking about cocaine or heroin here - we're talking about bio-identical hormones - as close to the stuff our bodies already make as possible. I take thyroid - am I a bad Christian? That is a hormone - an anabolic hormone, but without it my whole family suffers from my lack - I could go insane without it. My body is a temple, so I give it what it needs to thrive.

If we can't enhance physical abilities without incurring the wrath of God, then we'd better give up our nice running shoes and our vitamin D supplements; we'd better give up working out too...

and make-up, and bras, and knee braces, and massage, and tennis elbow braces...

Say whatever you want to make yourself feel better about it. If you think that taking drugs that alter your body's shape or functionality for competitive (or financial) reasons is exempt from what the Bible warns us about, well, that's your business and not mine. If God had wanted us to be shaped different or to perform at almost superhuman levels, I'm pretty sure He could have made us that way.