10 things I'm right about, whether you agree or not.

Mystery

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Mystery,

So if someone never loves God, never loves God's children, and/or stops loving God....he will still be saved?

Avoid off-base scriptures...as above...and just answer the question please.

The above question is a contradiction. If somone NEVER loves God, the can NEVER stop loving God. You have to first do something in order to stop doing something. Moron.

Besides that, if someone never loved God, they were never saved. Those who do love God cannot stop loving God, because theu have died with Christ, and the life that they live is no longer their own. They have been bought by His precious blood and they live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. They are a new creation in Christ. They love God, because He first loved them.

Look, you dimwitted fool, as I pointed out from those verses, that you cannot comprehend, because you do not know God, someone who does not love God, does not know God.

YOU have NO IDEA what salvation is, because of the anti-Christ cult that you follow, so YOU do not have the abilty to understand what the bible says.
 

BillH

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Knight, since you seem to set the tenor/level of civility by your retorts..I''ll respond using your own words. You're an idiot with your last posting.

Don't ban me...I am only following your model. You have a sad "Putin-esque" way of suppressing others by your keyboard, but only when it suits you...don't see you salvaging other conversations.. But you let other viscious conversation go on un-checked.

I used to be an Evangelical Protestant, til I actually read the Bible in its fullness..and until I did evem more, for example, actually reading about the early Church and what they actually believed in (real presence of the Euchasist, authority of the Pope ("keys of the kingdom"). I also read Scott Hahn's, Patrick Madrid's, Marcus Grodi, Steven Ray's accounts of how these Evangelical (pastors most of them) found the true Church.

With respect to above posting....you can find comparable references throughout the Bible to the utter ludicrousness of OSAS.

1 Cor. 9: 27 – "...for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified."

1 Jn. 3: 10 – "In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother."

Mt. 18: 32-35 – "Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart."

Mk. 8: 34 – "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross and follow me."

Mt. 10: 22 – "...whoever endures to the end will be saved."

Not a simple "yes" on an altar call. But a lifelong "acceptance" of Jesus Christ.

If only “accepting Jesus” during a heady moment during a non-Biblical altar call is needed, why is this necessary (“must”)
 

Adamhart

New member
The above question is a contradiction. If somone NEVER loves God, the can NEVER stop loving God. You have to first do something in order to stop doing something. Moron.

Besides that, if someone never loved God, they were never saved. Those who do love God cannot stop loving God, because theu have died with Christ, and the life that they live is no longer their own. They have been bought by His precious blood and they live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. They are a new creation in Christ. They love God, because He first loved them.

Look, you dimwitted fool, as I pointed out from those verses, that you cannot comprehend, because you do not know God, someone who does not love God, does not know God.

YOU have NO IDEA what salvation is, because of the anti-Christ cult that you follow, so YOU do not have the abilty to understand what the bible says.


I love and respect Catholic Christians, I hope you will too someday
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Everyone knows, Mystery. You spend a lot of time thinking about it, and it shows up in your posts.
Where did Mystery make that statement? No link was included. Are you forging quotes? If you are, it is reprehensible ethical behavior.
 

godrulz

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Why can't those who love God not stop loving God? Love is a free choice. Getting life does not negate our wills or we would not be able to love and obey God. Lucifer stopped loving God. Adam, from innocence, put Self above love for God when He disobeyed. Rev. 2-3 has principles that apply, like Rev. 2:4 where some in the church at Ephesus (believers) had forsaken their first love and were exhorted to return to Him with wholehearted love. There are also exhortations or imperatives to love in Scripture (Ephesians, Gospels, etc.). Love is not caused or coerced, but is freely chosen. Unless we are robots, it is possible to revert to selfishness from love just as we once moved from Self to love in response to the Spirit.
 

Mystery

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Why can't those who love God not stop loving God? Love is a free choice.
No it's not. It is a fruit of the Spirit.

You have a god that can sin. I do not. I have a God who cannot sin. You have a god who can lie. I do not. I have a God who cannot lie. You have a god who can be tempted by evil. I do not. I have a God who cannot be tempted by evil.
 

godrulz

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No it's not. It is a fruit of the Spirit.

You have a god that can sin. I do not. I have a God who cannot sin. You have a god who can lie. I do not. I have a God who cannot lie. You have a god who can be tempted by evil. I do not. I have a God who cannot be tempted by evil.

I have a God who does not sin, lie, is not tempted, etc.

We love because He first loved us. In your version, we do not love, but he gives it as a thing that makes us love all the time, no matter what. The exhortations and imperatives to love God and others can be excised from your Bible, since you do not consider this inspired teaching from Christ and the Spirit.

Are you sure you are not a sock puppet or Calvinist?

When Jesus loved the Father and disciples, was this fruit of the Spirit or an act of His will and mind (perhaps you do not understand the nature of the fruit of the Spirit in a believer's life?).
 

Mystery

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I have a God who does not sin, lie, is not tempted, etc.
Notice: godrulz did not say God cannot, but does not.

We love because He first loved us. In your version, we do not love, but he gives it as a thing that makes us love all the time, no matter what.
No, William, the Holy Spirit is God, He is not a "thing" as you suggest.

When Jesus loved the Father and disciples, was this fruit of the Spirit or an act of His will and mind (perhaps you do not understand the nature of the fruit of the Spirit in a believer's life?).
Fruit of the Spirit. Contrary to what you think, Jesus is God.
 

BillH

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Mystery.

Perhaps I phrased it a bit too quickly, for you.

OSAS forces people to say enormously stupid things like: "if someone never loved God, they were never saved." So you can live your whole life and with your last breath have perfect confidence that you will be saved, simply because you did an altar call one day in your youth?

Well....how do you know with "certainty" that you...or anyone...even someone like Paul...loved God? And then circle back and say ...'see they must not have loved God, so they weren't saved in the first place'.

So I self-detect "love" during an altar call...and it's all a done deal?
So with OSAS, you don't have to do obey Jesus's two great commandants, and according to OSAS and many Protestants today....you can ignore all the 10 commandmants ("old law"..tsk tsk)...they're really nothing more than "good ideas" to follow because it creates harmany while on earth.

All of the above follows from OSAS.

And you call me a moron? OSAS forces some crazy "hand waving" to explain so much of the Bible...that it essentially fractures the Bible. It's not very elegant, after OSAS.

Far less contorted to hold that "saving" is life long. And that we need to do what Jesus asked to do...our whole life long. One long.....sometimes stumbling, sometimes struggling, always hoping (read Paul's use of hope..his use of this word doesn't make any sense if OSAS were true), sometimes even failing..but always persevering....YES to God.
 

Mystery

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BillH... You do not know what salvation is. When you do, then you can discuss it. Until then, you are just ignorant, and a waste of time.
 

BillH

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Mystery, yYou not only don't understand what true salvation is (for you, salvation is a silly easy altar call), you incredibly don't understand nor exhibit what it means to be a Christian in everyday life.

Your OSAS view fractures the message of the Gospel into a thousand separate quotes to be piecemealed and shoe horned in as needed to prove your personal and circular preconceptions.

Viewing salvation as a life long event instead integrates and keeps all things whole.

Colossians 1: 12 - 20 "and in him all things hold together". OSAS splinters so much of the Gospel, as these forums are so evidently doing.

How far are most Protestants from: Romans 15: 5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, 6so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

More over, it's clear in the tenor of your messages throughout these forums...you have no charity in you...mainly just crotchety invective.

May you find real peace and real salvation during your life.
 

SaulToPaul

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BillH... You do not know what salvation is. When you do, then you can discuss it. Until then, you are just ignorant, and a waste of time.

He's apparently another member of the huge "Christian religion" which is powerless to save anyone. It's probably Satan's biggest tool to blind people
from the simplicity of the gospel.
 

BillH

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Mystery,

Salvation begins when you turn to Jesus..and completes when you meet Jesus face to face.

If you are familiar with the Greek view of "happiness"....so distant from today's understanding of that word, real salvation...as with real happiness is a life long state/pursuit.

Today we've cheapened salvation into a classic "instant on" Americanized notion. I need it, I got it, and oh by the way...I can't lose it either. So utterly modern...so utterly wrong. So cheap. And as I point out it disintegrates the whole message of the Bible.

The Greeks held that happiness had a moral dimension to it...a whole life well lived...not an instantaneous state. You could die having lived a Happy life. That was the idea.

And for the same reason today....so many American's miscontrue "Happiness" as an instantaneous state....a belly full of chow. They latch on and abuse the classical notion of Happiness...and they misconstrue "pursuit of happiness" into an emotional state...rather than a long running moral state/condition.

Given that the early disciples and the early Church were far more familiar and knowledgable about such notions of moral happiness and other pivotal words such as salvation....do you really think the early Church shared your understanding of "instant on, altar call" salvation?

It wasn't until more than 1500 years later did some people start piecemealing apart God's word.
 

Mystery

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Mystery,

Salvation begins when you turn to Jesus..and completes when you meet Jesus face to face.
That's not what I asked, you moron.

If you cannot answer simple questions, then just take a hike off this thread.

I have already caught you in a HUGE contradiction (which you have not retracted).

Now, answer the question or get lost.

When is someone SAVED? (PAST TENSE)
 

BillH

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Dear Impatient and Mysterious Altar Caller,

I know you need to have things instantly in tight little boxes...but I did answer your question, I told you when the process begins and when it ends (when your life ends here).

Just as Jesus's life giving act wasn't complete until he died, His life saving act for us isn't over til we die. Don't put Jesus's act into some finite time frozen form. God doesn't share our limits of space and time. His mercy endures forever.

Proof for a more powerful, more elegant, more beautiful undertanding of Salvation...than a silly non-biblical altar call?

Read:

Phil 2:12 work out your salvation with fear and trembling

1 Peter 1:9 as you attain the goal of your faith, salvation.

Mt 10:22 he who endures to the end will be saved

Mt 23:13 he who perseveres to the end will be saved

Mk 8:35 who loses his life for my sake will save it

Acts 15:11 we shall be saved through the grace of Jesus

Romans 5:9-10 insce we are justified, we shall be saved.

Romans: 13:11 salvation is nearer now than first believed.

1 Cor 3:15 he will be saved, but only as through fire

1 Cor 5:5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

Hebrews 9:28 Jesus will appear second time, to bring salvation.
 
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Mystery

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Is your answer that no one is "SAVED" until they die?

Is it possible after someone is dead that they can be UN-SAVED?

YES or NO answers. I will ignore the rest.
 

BillH

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Mystery,

Cross Examine Him. and feel free to ignore me..and the Bible verses that are counter to your OSAS/altar calling belief......you may uncharitably demand the need for yes and no answers....so feel free to take these things up with the Lord in prayer. Hint...bring some humility with you when you do that.

I am just a human, I look at all the Bible, and have to conclude based on all the verses that I have read and studied that my salvation will culminate when I die. And that OSAS is a false belief, relatively new in the life of the Christian Church.

I don't know about others and what's in their hearts. Nor is this part of my job on earth.

God didn't put me here to know all things with lawyer-like certainty...but instead to love Him, to give Him Glory, to say yes to Him everyday, and to show others how to love Him, by the way I love others. I fail more often than not. Do you?

Or has OSAS made all these things not legally necessary?
 
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