Absolute Divine Immutability: Does Anyone Really Believe It?

[Cedarbay]

Show me where Jesus stated that he was the Creator and Father as opossed to the son of God. I hold all scripture very close to me at all times. I through out negativity of the biased.

My mind screams at poor spelling and grammar, pops. What device are you using that has no spell/grammar check? It is hard enough to understand what a person is trying to say without this. Sorry to sound critical.

 

[popsthebuilder]

My mind screams at poor spelling and grammar, pops. What device are you using that has no spell/grammar check? It is hard enough to understand what a person is trying to say without this. Sorry to sound critical.

Crappy phone with mischievious auto correct. With a glair and sweat impeding my efforts.

 

[Cruciform]

To clarify, is there anyone here who believes that God has not ever changed nor is He capable of changing in any way whatsoever?

That isn't what the theological term "immutability" describes. Specifically, it means that God does not---cannot---change in his essential nature. It is an ontological definition.

 

[glorydaz]

That is like saying we can sin all throughout life with no fear of God because Jesus was crusified. That is not right. If you do not fear God you are not faithful to God.

So is a wife who fears her husband more apt to be faithful than the one who loves him?

 

[glorydaz]

Faith and works are the way to the Father, regardless of if we have been saved or not. To assume that we can sin because Jesus was crusified is false doctrine. Through Christ we can be without sin, or at very least more good than bad.

What is the cut off? Over 50 percent good?

 

[popsthebuilder]

What is the cut off? Over 50 percent good?

Don't know. Not gonna chance it either.

 

[popsthebuilder]

So is a wife who fears her husband more apt to be faithful than the one who loves him?

No. Is a child who fears his father more apt to heed his word, or is a spoiled child?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Crappy phone with mischievious auto correct. With a glair and sweat impeding my efforts.

If you are trying to earn your salvation by being good enough you will sweat.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If you are trying to earn your salvation by being good enough you will sweat.

I'm just trying to follow the path God has lain out before me for his cause. It is hot at times though. I don't really mind though, it's a welcome change.

 

[glorydaz]

You deny that Jesus was God. That makes you something other than a Christian and thus whatever you have to say on this topic is worthless.

Further, you deny Jesus' deity in contradiction to yourself! Or do you also deny that God the Son, the 2nd person of the Trinity, existed prior to the incarnation? How in the world does God the Son becoming something other than God (according to you) not constitute a change?

DO NOT ANSWER THAT!!!!

I don't care what you have to say about any of it. You worship the wrong Jesus and look to the death of mere man to pay for your sins. That makes you at best pitiable but certainly not a Christian.

Resting in Him,
Clete

:first:

 

[Traditio]

That isn't what the theological term "immutability" describes. Specifically, it means that God does not---cannot---change in his essential nature. It is an ontological definition.

False. That's exactly what immutability describes. Immutable means what the Greek akineton (motionless) means. I really don't understand your limiting immutability to God's essential nature. Do you think He undergoes accidental change (as though God were a substance/accident composite)?

There is no composition of parts in God. There is no composition of act and potency in God. God is absolutely simple. The only real "multiplicity" in God is the "multiplicity" of real personal relationships, but this does not really divide God's simplicity or unity.

 

[glorydaz]

No. Is a child who fears his father more apt to heed his word, or is a spoiled child?

Love and fear....don't try changing the terms.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Love and fear....don't try changing the terms.

Not changing terms. So called Christians that sin all week and repent habitually come Sunday are spoiled and a rude awakn ing awaits them upon physical death.

 

[Cruciform]

I really don't understand your limiting immutability to God's essential nature. Do you think He undergoes accidental change (as though God were a substance/accident composite)?

No, I don't, nor did I make any such claim.

The only real "multiplicity" in God is the "multiplicity" of real personal relationships, but this does not really divide God's simplicity or unity.

I agree.

 

[glorydaz]

Don't know. Not gonna chance it either.

Here is a hint for you. Our Lord and Saviour was without sin 100 percent of the time. His obedience makes many righteous. It's a gift you cannot earn with all your feeble effort or with all your trying.

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)​

Could a mere man make anyone righteous? Do you want to "chance it"?

 

[glorydaz]

Not changing terms. So called Christians that sin all week and repent habitually come Sunday are spoiled and a rude awakn ing awaits them upon physical death.

The rude awakening will come to those who trust in their own "righteousness" instead of the Lord Jesus Christ and His free gift of salvation.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

 

[popsthebuilder]

Here is a hint for you. Our Lord and Saviour was without sin 100 percent of the time. His obedience makes many righteous. It's a gift you cannot earn with all your feeble effort or with all your trying.

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)​

Could a mere man make anyone righteous? Do you want to "chance it"?

Jesus saves. Our unfaltering guidance under him after salvation is up to us and must be under the selfless direction of God. I chance nothing.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The rude awakening will come to those who trust in their own "righteousness" instead of the Lord Jesus Christ and His free gift of salvation.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

Still can't sin. Sorry.

 

[Drake Shelton]

Is there anyone here who is willing to state, without qualification, that God is immutable?

To clarify, is there anyone here who believes that God has not ever changed nor is He capable of changing in any way whatseover?

Resting in Him,
Clete

The doctrine is a conflation of being and activity, pace Absolute Divine Simplicity. The truth is, the being and moral character of God does not change, but his activities change.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Still can't sin. Sorry.

I misspoke. You must do your very best to not sin. For those whom have actually been saved can still fall by there mislead self righteousness, as opposed to following the teachings of Christ.