Doctrine of Unconditional Election

beloved57

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I am glad I chose to believe so God would "shine the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" to me. (2 Cor 4:6)
From the beginning, God knew that it would take belief of the truth and sanctification of the Spirit for me to be saved.

Are we on earth able to distinguish the "chosen" from the "unchosen"?
In the scripture, one believes because God chose them to believe. He first Loved them from everlasting, chose them in Christ, Christ came in time and put away their sins, and in time the Spirit comes to the blood washed sinner, gives them Spiritual life, sets them apart unto belief of the Truth. 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Paul thanks God for their belief of the Truth, not the sinner. Paul knew it was God that caused their belief of the Truth. Whereas in your beliefs you as you just said, its you who made the decision to believe, and then your god responded to you.
 

JudgeRightly

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Whereas in your beliefs you as you just said, its you who made the decision to believe, and then your god responded to you.

No.

The decision to believe is a RESPONSE to God giving His Son. GOD is the first mover, not man.
 

JudgeRightly

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I gave my understanding of the Truth in post 121,

Your understanding is wrong.

Lean not on your own understanding.

on how and why one comes to believe the Truth. God is to be Thanked !

For making it possible for men to respond to the gospel, yes.

That's an entirely different matter than a person believing as a response to the gospel.

There's two pies here. You're claiming they're the same pie.

God is responsible for making the first pie, providing salvation.

Man is responsible for making the second pie, responding to that offer of salvation.

Just because man responds to the gospel doesn't make him responsible for the first pie.
 

Hoping

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In the scripture, one believes because God chose them to believe. He first Loved them from everlasting, chose them in Christ, Christ came in time and put away their sins, and in time the Spirit comes to the blood washed sinner, gives them Spiritual life, sets them apart unto belief of the Truth. 2 Thess 2:13
How does scripture say they were "blood washed"?
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Paul thanks God for their belief of the Truth, not the sinner. Paul knew it was God that caused their belief of the Truth. Whereas in your beliefs you as you just said, its you who made the decision to believe, and then your god responded to you.
If they didn't believe, they won't be saved.
They had to do something for their own good.
There will be no unbelievers in heaven.
 
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beloved57

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How does scripture say they were "blood washed"?

If they didn't believe, they won't be saved.
They had to do something for their own good.
There will be no unbelievers in heaven.
They wouldnt believe if they werent saved. When God saves an individual, then they believe, thats why Paul Thanked God for them believing the Truth.
 

Hoping

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They wouldnt believe if they werent saved. When God saves an individual, then they believe, thats why Paul Thanked God for them believing the Truth.
You have the horse pushing the cart.
Faith cometh by hearing, hearing from one with the gospel.
According to you, neither hearing nor faith are necessary for salvation.
"God just picks us at random." as per your POV
 

Hoping

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So one does not know they are saved till the final judgement?
That is correct.
Like Peter said..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
Judgement will begin with us.
If we were already "saved" what would be the point of Peter's message?
 

JudgeRightly

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That is correct.
Like Peter said..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
Judgement will begin with us.
If we were already "saved" what would be the point of Peter's message?

Did you notice that Peter is speaking to Jews?

"Enduring to the end" was the very thing Christ taught to the twelve, which He commanded whom to teach to the world.

Paul, on the other hand, says this:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast.For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone,in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. - Ephesians 2:1-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:1-22&version=NKJV

That doesn't sound like we have to wait until judgement day to be saved. That sounds like we're already saved.

It only makes sense if Peter and Paul are speaking to two different groups under two different dispensations.

Things that differ are not the same.
 

beloved57

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Election refers to God’s making a choice on whom to save. It is unconditional in that there is no condition or requirements man must meet before Gods chooses to save him. This is true because Gods choice of the person occurred before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 and when man is born into world he is dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5. So there are no conditions or requirements he can meet before God chose him to save him from his lost plight ! So election is all of grace Rom 11:5-6

Election is prior to Faith, and will result in Faith Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

God did the ordaining, and when does God do the ordaining ? From the beginning Acts 15:18


18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world or from of old !
 

JudgeRightly

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Election refers to God’s making a choice on whom to save.

No, it doesn't refer to that.

Election just means chosen to accomplish a task or purpose. It doesn't mean someone is saved.

For example, God ELECTED Levi and his descendants to be His priests forever, but because of the wickedness of the priests, God cut off the tribe of Levi from being His priests, despite Him previously saying that they would be His forever.

For the Lord your God has chosen him out of all your tribes to stand to minister in the name of the Lord, him and his sons forever. - Deuteronomy 18:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy18:5&version=NKJV

Then a man of God came to Eli and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Did I not clearly reveal Myself to the house of your father when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh’s house?Did I not choose him out of all the tribes of Israel to be My priest, to offer upon My altar, to burn incense, and to wear an ephod before Me? And did I not give to the house of your father all the offerings of the children of Israel made by fire?Why do you kick at My sacrifice and My offering which I have commanded in My dwelling place, and honor your sons more than Me, to make yourselves fat with the best of all the offerings of Israel My people?’Therefore the Lord God of Israel says: ‘I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.’ But now the Lord says: ‘Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.Behold, the days are coming that I will cut off your arm and the arm of your father’s house, so that there will not be an old man in your house.And you will see an enemy in My dwelling place, despite all the good which God does for Israel. And there shall not be an old man in your house forever.But any of your men whom I do not cut off from My altar shall consume your eyes and grieve your heart. And all the descendants of your house shall die in the flower of their age.Now this shall be a sign to you that will come upon your two sons, on Hophni and Phinehas: in one day they shall die, both of them.Then I will raise up for Myself a faithful priest who shall do according to what is in My heart and in My mind. I will build him a sure house, and he shall walk before My anointed forever.And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left in your house will come and bow down to him for a piece of silver and a morsel of bread, and say, “Please, put me in one of the priestly positions, that I may eat a piece of bread.”’ ” - 1 Samuel 2:27-36 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Samuel2:27-36&version=NKJV

It is unconditional in that there is no condition or requirements man must meet before Gods chooses to save him.

False.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “ Lord, who has believed our report?”So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:9-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-17&version=NKJV

This is true

Saying it doesn't make it so.

because Gods choice of the person occurred before the foundation of the world

False.


Does not say what you want it to say.

Observe:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. - Ephesians 1:3-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians1:3-6&version=NKJV

"Us in Him."

Not "Us"

How does one get "in Him?"

See the passage from Romans above.

and when man is born into world he is dead in trespasses and sins

There is no scripture that supports this.

Eph 2:1,5.

Does not say what you want it to say.

Observe:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast.For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:1-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:1-10&version=NKJV

See?

So there are no conditions or requirements he can meet before God chose him to save him from his lost plight!

God tells men to humble themselves.

Can they not?

God tells men to believe in His Son. Can they not?

So election is all of grace

Wrong.

Rom 11:5-6

Does not say what you want it to say.

Election is prior to Faith,

No, it's not.

and will result in Faith

No, it is not guaranteed to result in faith.

But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.” - Romans 10:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:21&version=NKJV

Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


Does not mean what you want it to say.

God did the ordaining,

Not in this case, no.

and when does God do the ordaining? From the beginning

God did not ordain individuals to salvation.

Acts 15:18
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world or from of old!

First of all, that's not what the verse says, not in my Bible at least.

“Known to God from eternity are all His works. - Acts 15:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts15:18&version=NKJV

What the verse IS NOT saying:

"God knows all the works He will ever do."

What the verse IS saying:

"God knows all the works He has ever done."

What you WANT the verse to say, despite it having nothing to do with ordaining anything, is that God knowing what he's done in the past somehow means that He ordained everything before the foundation of the world. That's not what it means though.

Oh, and let's not forget the fact that you've ripped the verse out of context.

Here's the context:

Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles.And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me:Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:‘After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up;So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things.’“Known to God from eternity are all His works.Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.” - Acts 15:6-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts15:6-21&version=NKJV

It says "God knows all the works He has done from the beginning of the world.

Yes, because He's the one who did them. God hasn't forgotten what He's done. In other words, God has a past.
 
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