God and Evil

patrick jane

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For example, why did he allow misery to befall Job?

Indeed, Why did He decree that His only begotten Son should suffer a horrible death?

To further show the the temporality of this life we are blessed with. Like His Son, we are blessed more when we die, with eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:51 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:52 KJV -

1 Corinthians 15:53 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:54 KJV -

1 Corinthians 15:55-56 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:57 KJV -
 

fishrovmen

Active member
As Paul said in Acts 17 and I am paraphrasing of memory here, God has placed each one of us in the place where we live and set up our boundaries that we should seek Him even though He is not far from us.
If there was no evil at all, and everything was "good", and God being invisible to the human eye, then why would we seek Someone or something better?
Hebrews 11 comes to mind, how the elders having been treated so badly by the world confessed that this was not their home for they sought another city whose builder and maker is God.
 

fishrovmen

Active member
I was just now thinking that when we talk about "evil" in the world, most of us think about the evil around us, but the Gospel offers hope for the evil WITHIN us. It is only in the bliss of the eternal state where the evil, having been completely taken from within us, will then,also be taken from around us.
 

6days

New member
Good and evil are concepts created by God. Perhaps what you meant to say is that God does not sin.

Is.45:7 in the KJV says God created evil.
The NIV says "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things".

As you suggest....God created the opportunity for us to sin / commit evil (reject and disobey Him).
The answer as to why God created evil is LOVE. At first glance, that answer seems counter intuitive. But, in order for love to exist, there also has to exist the possibility of rejection.

God could have created humans without the capacity to disobey. That means we also would not have the capacity to freely obey and freely love. It seems that unbelievers who ask the question 'why', want a God who controls others...but not so much themselves.
 

OCTOBER23

New member
(So many millions starve to death or watch their children starve?)
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What people are starving to death - do you mean Aushwitz ?

- GOD TRIED TO DEAL WITH REBELLIOUS MANKIND BUT THEY REJECTED HIM-

SO HE LEfT THEM ALONE TO DEAL WITH THEMSELVES

MAN'S INHUMANITY TO MAN INFLUENCED BY SATAN
------------------------------------------------------------

IN 2024 GOD AND JESUS WILL COME BACK AND TAKE OVER AND RETRAIN MANKIND.

That is how I see it.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
"IF god were real, why would he spend so much time in white America answering the minutia of prayer he receives while leaving so many millions to starve to death or watch their children starve?"

This is a quote from MrDeets blogpost which seems to me to be the essence of a long unanswered difficulty he struggled with. This is a reasonable question and a real issue for many and can be used effectively by Satan if left unanswered.

I encourage all serious, biblical/theological input.

Since God is real, He expects to be treated as real, as the real and true God.

Scripture states that you receive not, because you ask not.

James 4:2

Likewise, people do not receive because they ask amiss, James 4:3

God's will is simple and clear. Anyone can find out what God's will if they will read and rightly divide His Word

Until then, it could happen that they might receive something from God, for even a blind squirrel will stumble upon a acorn once in a while.

People who busy themselves serving idols and serving other gods are not praying to the Creator, the God who is love and light and rich in mercy and gracious.

People reap what they sow. People who serve evil gods, get evil results

People who serve the Creator, the God who is love and light and goodness, get love and light and goodness
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
(So many millions starve to death or watch their children starve?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What people are starving to death - do you mean Aushwitz ?

- GOD TRIED TO DEAL WITH REBELLIOUS MANKIND BUT THEY REJECTED HIM-

SO HE LEfT THEM ALONE TO DEAL WITH THEMSELVES

MAN'S INHUMANITY TO MAN INFLUENCED BY SATAN
------------------------------------------------------------

IN 2024 GOD AND JESUS WILL COME BACK AND TAKE OVER AND RETRAIN MANKIND.

That is how I see it.

If you are going to make stupid comments and not contribute, please do it somewhere else.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
I was just now thinking that when we talk about "evil" in the world, most of us think about the evil around us, but the Gospel offers hope for the evil WITHIN us. It is only in the bliss of the eternal state where the evil, having been completely taken from within us, will then,also be taken from around us.

This is a good thought.

When we neglect to help the unfortunate we are adding to the burden instead of being part of the solution.
 

PureX

Well-known member
So far, I see no reasonable answers to an age-old question. And the answers I do see are mostly absurd, elitist excuses. If this question were a stumbling block between myself and God, or Christ, none of you will have done anything to remove it. And most of you will have made it even more of an impediment.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Since God is real, He expects to be treated as real, as the real and true God.

Scripture states that you receive not, because you ask not.

James 4:2

Likewise, people do not receive because they ask amiss, James 4:3

God's will is simple and clear. Anyone can find out what God's will if they will read and rightly divide His Word

Until then, it could happen that they might receive something from God, for even a blind squirrel will stumble upon a acorn once in a while.

People who busy themselves serving idols and serving other gods are not praying to the Creator, the God who is love and light and rich in mercy and gracious.

People reap what they sow. People who serve evil gods, get evil results

People who serve the Creator, the God who is love and light and goodness, get love and light and goodness

If you believe this, you have less than half the gospel. This is nothing more than retribution; a commodity which God does not deal in exclusively. It is the bad news by which the good news is to be appreciated. He is also full of grace and mercy and has gone to great lengths to include all peoples in forgiveness of sin by faith in Christ.
 

patrick jane

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Banned
Is.45:7 in the KJV says God created evil.
The NIV says "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things".

.

Isaiah 45:7 NKJV - calamity


Isaiah 45:7 NIV - disaster

God did and does NOT CREATE EVIL
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
So far, I see no reasonable answers to an age-old question. And the answers I do see are mostly absurd, elitist excuses. If this question were a stumbling block between myself and God, or Christ, none of you will have done anything to remove it. And most of you will have made it even more of an impediment.

I agree entirely.

And yet, for me, the existence of evil and suffering is actually a proof of God's existence, love, and grace; not a reason to doubt it.

Put your thinking cap on PureX and see if you can contribute positively. It is absolutely true that our modern age rewards the non-thinking, one line, lazy, Twitter/Facebook mentality to the point where it dulls our thinking abilities.

Methinks you and others are happy to retreat into "I dunno!" because it takes too much effort.
 

patrick jane

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So far, I see no reasonable answers to an age-old question. And the answers I do see are mostly absurd, elitist excuses. If this question were a stumbling block between myself and God, or Christ, none of you will have done anything to remove it. And most of you will have made it even more of an impediment.

Oh, you want REASONABLE answers, not absurd elitist excuses. I see
 

MrDeets

TOL Subscriber
Methinks you and others are happy to retreat into "I dunno!" because it takes too much effort.

Why is "I don't know" unacceptable? Wouldn't there be things in a supernatural realm(for lack of a better term) that are simply unknowable or unexplainable? The presumptuous attitude of some is more off putting than the problem itself, IMO.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Ok, let's start up the grey matter motor.

It is not possible to recognize, label or condemn evil without some standard of good by which to measure. Indeed, it is not possible to declare good to be better than evil without a standard of some kind.

If I said to you; "That wall is 25 gojibits long", it would mean nothing in real terms unless I first defined the terms.

And yet everyone, religious or not, has some innate recognition of a difference between good and bad, and not just relative to themselves and how they feel at the time.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
If you believe this, you have less than half the gospel. This is nothing more than retribution; a commodity which God does not deal in exclusively. It is the bad news by which the good news is to be appreciated. He is also full of grace and mercy and has gone to great lengths to include all peoples in forgiveness of sin by faith in Christ.

Until someone believes God's words they will not receive from God.

Do you believe God forces himself on people, like a rapist or robber or a murderer?

Do you believe that God shoves Bibles down people's throats?

Or do you believe that God is the rewarder of them that diligently seek him?

Hebrews 11:6

But without believing it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Those who choose to deny that He exists nor those who do not diligently seek Him are on their own without God's help.

God does not force people to accept His blessings

But without believing it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Mark 9:23

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

For those who choose not to believe, nothing is possible
 

patrick jane

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WHAT IS GOOD IN GOD'S EYES?

What is good?

They say the defining characteristic of philosophy is that it gives hard answers to easy questions. If that's true, then this question certainly fits the bill. The question was raised by commenters here whether we can believe God is good, when the Bible says he ordered the destruction of nations, and when he says in the Bible that suffering is beneficial (at least for some).

The answer to this question requires challenging common assumptions about what is really good.

Thus this is a question not just of philosophy but of Biblical theology. What is really good in God's eyes? The short answer is, in part it is what you would expect, and in part it is completely different.

God's ultimate goal is a universe that reflects his glory. (This is not ego-centric in God's case.) He is eternally at the center of all, from before time began and through all of natural and human history, and everything is to reach its consummation in him.

So the definition of "good" starts with God and ends with God.

For humans, according to the Bible, the "good" is a matter of experiencing and reflecting the character of God. God's character is revealed Biblically as loving, holy, righteous, just, and wise. God's love is central ("God is love) and it's what most people seem to expect of him. His love is expressed in multiple ways.

God's holiness is less often recognized. This is where it's crucial to be aware of the Two Worlds mentioned previously: many of us living in one of these Worlds have no idea of what is said of God in the other. It would be hard to overstate the importance of God's holiness, or how unaware many are of it.

Habakkuk 1:13 says he is pure; he is too holy to look upon sin without dealing with it. He says to Israel, "You shall be holy, for I the Lord am holy." Holiness is not, as is often supposed, the same as righteousness; it has more to do with being set apart. God is separate from all that is sinful.

God is righteous, meaning he always does what is pure and without sin: "For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright" (Psalm 11:7).

God is just; he judges fairly. He rewards the good and punishes evil. Some evils in the world continue unabated but only for a time; he will deal with it in his time, but remains patient so that more may escape judgment, through Christ.

God is wise beyond our understanding; not everything has to make sense. His ways and thoughts are higher than ours. I have often thought, in fact, that it is not surprising that some things about God remain puzzling even to those who spend a lifetime searching them out. If we could understand God, it would be more appropriate that he worship us than that we worship him.

This just scratches the surface of what is defined as God's goodness. It touches only on his moral goodness, and not his omnipotence, omniscience, and so on.

To summarize: God's goal is a universe that reflects his glory. His goodness is expressed in his love, holiness, righteousness, justice, and wisdom. What is good for humans is to come into a knowledge of God, to know his many-faceted goodness, and begin to share in his character: to become complete in Christ. This is with a view to eternity, so that temporary/temporal pain may be good if it produces eternal growth. This is nothing more than the common idea of delayed gratification, though magnified to a large scale.

God chose not to make human goodness automatic, not to make us automatons. He created us with the ability to make moral choices, and as a result, real moral evil has entered the world. God's goodness is always operative in every facet: love, holiness, justice, and so on. Sometimes from our perspective, its apparent operation is more on the level of preserving holiness and justice than on the level of providing personal life, health, or comfort. Sometimes we, who do not fully share in or understand the whole extent of God's goodness, do not see clearly how it is working, but this is because of our limitations and not because of flaws in God.

This is very revolutionary thinking for those who live in the World that is not familiar with it. I'm sure there are questions and problems I've raised here in this very brief outline that I'm hardly aware of, but I'll leave it as is for now and let the discussion go forward.


from Thinking Christian by Tom Gilson
 
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chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
"IF god were real, why would he spend so much time in white America answering the minutia of prayer he receives while leaving so many millions to starve to death or watch their children starve?".

it is all about freedom
God gave us free will
and
many are trying to take it away from us
namely

islam
communism
calvinism

so
protecting freedom is job one
and
white america has that job
 
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