ECT Holy Laughter: Christian Behavior or Something Else

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

First, a definition from Wikipedia on what Holy Laughter is for any that might not know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_laughter

From the Grace to You website, the following article from Phil Johnson:

http://www.gty.org/blog/B130610/not-laughing-now

My wife and I left the Charismatic movement before "Holy Laughter" became more common in the movement. We left because of the influx of "New Age" ideas and techniques being brought into the Church. To see "Holy Laughter" in action, just go to youtube.

After viewing youtube videos, what do you think? Is there a connection between the "New Age Movement" and "Holy Laughter"?

 

[Lon]

It is emotionalism. The Samaritans worshipped on their mount, because of sentiment. In and of itself, emotions are neither good nor bad. They are responses, like indicator lights on your dashboard of your car. Some people live by their dashboard lights. Most of us simply pay attention to what they are telling us. We worship God, and emotions certainly play a part of that interaction. God meets our needs on all levels. Some people cry more easily than I do. I don't really cry at movies. Well, Brian's song, but that was because it really happened and there was a brotherly-friend bond expressed...
The charismatic movement has a strong following because you 'feel good' going to church. I appreciate that the charismatics seem to do that well. If you 'feel right when attending, you are likely going to go back.
Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the time had come when true worshippers would(must) worship in Spirit and Truth. He explained that the Samaritans worshipped without knowing a lot and getting a lot wrong, whereas the Jews, knew a lot, but didn't worship.
A church in balance, will worship well and you'll come away from church, not bored from a dull sermon, but having a sense of accomplishment and well-being.
We need to worship in Spirit and Truth.
-Lon

 

[nikolai_42]

First, a definition from Wikipedia on what Holy Laughter is for any that might not know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_laughter

From the Grace to You website, the following article from Phil Johnson:

http://www.gty.org/blog/B130610/not-laughing-now

My wife and I left the Charismatic movement before "Holy Laughter" became more common in the movement. We left because of the influx of "New Age" ideas and techniques being brought into the Church. To see "Holy Laughter" in action, just go to youtube.

After viewing youtube videos, what do you think? Is there a connection between the "New Age Movement" and "Holy Laughter"?

If there's one thing about the Holy Spirit that can't be overemphasized, it's that He works behind the scenes. Never is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to bring attention to Himself in any sense. And one sees that even in the way Jesus spoke of those who are born of that same Spirit :

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3:8

You know something (or Someone!) is at work, but you can't see Him and only feel the affects of His Word.

As a side-note, I think of many times I have read prophetic statements by men of God like John Knox and Charles Spurgeon. They are of a tradition that would deny the continuation of charismatic gifts in the apostolic sense. But it is clear that they have uttered these things and they have been proven true. And it isn't as though they feel themselves strangely inspired at a given point and then say "Thus saith the Lord" but rather that their whole work is given to serving Him and the Spirit which indwells them brings these things so subtly to mind that they don't even necessarily realize they are prophesying but the Spirit makes it clear to them that they are uttering truth. This is the hidden work of God by His Spirit in the lives of those who walk after Him.

So when I see anything that is clearly "demonstrative" and attention-getting that is labelled a move of the Holy Spirit, I am skeptical. I won't say there isn't anything of the Holy Spirit in some situations, but the best I can say about the outworkings is that they are clearly fleshly. God's Spirit brings conviction and change. There may be odd reactions, but when something like this happens over and over again and becomes a "move", I get even more skeptical. Not wanting to call what is of God (even in the smallest way) something of Satan, I simply say that those who run after these moves are what Jesus called a "wicked and adulterous generation".

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Matthew 12:39

Who knows...maybe this generation is getting what it wants? Maybe this is of God in the sense that it is part of the delusion sent to those who will not believe the truth but rather believe a lie?

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

It is emotionalism. The Samaritans worshipped on their mount, because of sentiment. In and of itself, emotions are neither good nor bad. They are responses, like indicator lights on your dashboard of your car. Some people live by their dashboard lights. Most of us simply pay attention to what they are telling us. We worship God, and emotions certainly play a part of that interaction. God meets our needs on all levels. Some people cry more easily than I do. I don't really cry at movies. Well, Brian's song, but that was because it really happened and there was a brotherly-friend bond expressed...

The charismatic movement has a strong following because you 'feel good' going to church. I appreciate that the charismatics seem to do that well. If you 'feel right when attending, you are likely going to go back.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman that the time had come when true worshippers would(must) worship in Spirit and Truth. He explained that the Samaritans worshipped without knowing a lot and getting a lot wrong, whereas the Jews, knew a lot, but didn't worship.

A church in balance, will worship well and you'll come away from church, not bored from a dull sermon, but having a sense of accomplishment and well-being.

We need to worship in Spirit and Truth.

-Lon

I agree with much of what you're saying. The problem is, and I've experienced this first-hand, is that Sunday services in these large non-denominational mega-churches manipulate the worshippers to a certain extent, especially in the praise and worship portion of the service. It's more about entertainment and making people feel good, in other words, it's about numbers (church membership) and money (for church sustainment and growth). I realize preaching on the Book of Numbers can be quite dry, but I'd like to see the whole Bible preached, expositionally.

As for "Holy Laughter", I'm not convinced this is of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

If there's one thing about the Holy Spirit that can't be overemphasized, it's that He works behind the scenes. Never is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to bring attention to Himself in any sense. And one sees that even in the way Jesus spoke of those who are born of that same Spirit :

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:8

You know something (or Someone!) is at work, but you can't see Him and only feel the affects of His Word.

As a side-note, I think of many times I have read prophetic statements by men of God like John Knox and Charles Spurgeon. They are of a tradition that would deny the continuation of charismatic gifts in the apostolic sense. But it is clear that they have uttered these things and they have been proven true. And it isn't as though they feel themselves strangely inspired at a given point and then say "Thus saith the Lord" but rather that their whole work is given to serving Him and the Spirit which indwells them brings these things so subtly to mind that they don't even necessarily realize they are prophesying but the Spirit makes it clear to them that they are uttering truth. This is the hidden work of God by His Spirit in the lives of those who walk after Him.

So when I see anything that is clearly "demonstrative" and attention-getting that is labelled a move of the Holy Spirit, I am skeptical. I won't say there isn't anything of the Holy Spirit in some situations, but the best I can say about the outworkings is that they are clearly fleshly. God's Spirit brings conviction and change. There may be odd reactions, but when something like this happens over and over again and becomes a "move", I get even more skeptical. Not wanting to call what is of God (even in the smallest way) something of Satan, I simply say that those who run after these moves are what Jesus called a "wicked and adulterous generation".

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 12:39

Who knows...maybe this generation is getting what it wants? Maybe this is of God in the sense that it is part of the delusion sent to those who will not believe the truth but rather believe a lie?

I am skeptical too. I'm not to the point of saying that tongues have ceased. But I don't believe everyone who has or is speaking in tongues is really speaking for God. As a former Charismatic, I include myself in the category. For some reason, God has put me on an unusual path to Him, through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I have felt the Holy Spirit in others, I hope others can feel the Holy Spirit in me (at least some of the time).

 

[God's Truth]

“SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 1- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 1"

 

[God's Truth]

SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 2- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 2

 

[Cross Reference]

If there's one thing about the Holy Spirit that can't be overemphasized, it's that He works behind the scenes. Never is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to bring attention to Himself in any sense. And one sees that even in the way Jesus spoke of those who are born of that same Spirit :

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3:8

You know something (or Someone!) is at work, but you can't see Him and only feel the affects of His Word.

As a side-note, I think of many times I have read prophetic statements by men of God like John Knox and Charles Spurgeon. They are of a tradition that would deny the continuation of charismatic gifts in the apostolic sense. But it is clear that they have uttered these things and they have been proven true. And it isn't as though they feel themselves strangely inspired at a given point and then say "Thus saith the Lord" but rather that their whole work is given to serving Him and the Spirit which indwells them brings these things so subtly to mind that they don't even necessarily realize they are prophesying but the Spirit makes it clear to them that they are uttering truth. This is the hidden work of God by His Spirit in the lives of those who walk after Him.

So when I see anything that is clearly "demonstrative" and attention-getting that is labelled a move of the Holy Spirit, I am skeptical. I won't say there isn't anything of the Holy Spirit in some situations, but the best I can say about the outworkings is that they are clearly fleshly. God's Spirit brings conviction and change. There may be odd reactions, but when something like this happens over and over again and becomes a "move", I get even more skeptical. Not wanting to call what is of God (even in the smallest way) something of Satan, I simply say that those who run after these moves are what Jesus called a "wicked and adulterous generation".

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Matthew 12:39

Who knows...maybe this generation is getting what it wants? Maybe this is of God in the sense that it is part of the delusion sent to those who will not believe the truth but rather believe a lie?

Question Nokolai: Why was it do you think people believed Spurgeon to be such a great man of God and why was it do you suppose it was sufficient for him to be so called?

 

[nikolai_42]

Question Nokolai: Why was it do you think people believed Spurgeon to be such a great man of God and why was it do you suppose it was sufficient for him to be so called?

Spurgeon embodied this passage :

Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
2 Corinthians 12:5-10

When I read men like Spurgeon and John Newton, I see the utter dependence on God that defined their lives. Men who know (in a real and deep sense) that they cannot lead their own lives but are called to reflect His and be led by His Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

Anyone watch the videos I posted? Anyone have anything they want to say about it? I posted it for your benefit. It would be descent and right to comment on it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Spurgeon embodied this passage :

Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
2 Corinthians 12:5-10

When I read men like Spurgeon and John Newton, I see the utter dependence on God that defined their lives. Men who know (in a real and deep sense) that they cannot lead their own lives but are called to reflect His and be led by His Spirit.

OK. So, being a Christian, he did nothing special and was a good preacher. Isn't that how I should understand you to be saying?

 

[nikolai_42]

OK. So, being a Christian, he did nothing special and was a good preacher. Isn't that how I should understand you to be saying?

Not sure how to answer that...the underlined portion of your post (underlining mine) is a contradiction in and of itself as far as I can tell.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Anyone watch the videos I posted? Anyone have anything they want to say about it? I posted it for your benefit. It would be descent and right to comment on it.

I can't see videos at work. I will look at them tonight.

 

[Cross Reference]

Not sure how to answer that...the underlined portion of your post (underlining mine) is a contradiction in and of itself as far as I can tell.

Please explain since Spurgeon "preached pretty much to the choir" every Sunday __ who "enjoyed" him.

 

[nikolai_42]

Please explain since Spurgeon "preached pretty much to the choir" every Sunday __ who "enjoyed" him.

That is a lot of insinuation packed into a single sentence. I can only take it that you distrust his ministry because of its size and popularity? Remember, even Jesus had a large following - not necessarily many who endured, but a large following nonetheless. Even trying to keep His ministry as quiet as possible for as long as possible didn't work for long. Eventually the Greeks heard and came to Him...

And need I remind you that one Oswald Chambers was converted under Spurgeon's ministry.

The point being that Truth ultimately does gather large crowds, but that doesn't mean all (or even most) are there to "enjoy". Curiosity, hatred, bitterness, need, contention...all types of people are drawn to Truth for all types of reasons. Light has a way of doing that in the darkness.

By their fruits you shall know them...and Spurgeon's life and works bore witness of Christ and the Holy Spirit's work in him. John the Baptist's entire life was devoted to that one work (declaring the coming of Christ). What else did he "do" that made him notable?

 

[God's Truth]

I can't see videos at work. I will look at them tonight.

Thanks for letting me know. I hope after you see them you are glad for the information. I truly am just trying to help.

 

[Aimiel]

I was EXTREMELY skeptical of 'holy laughter' until I attended a meeting where just that broke out through the crowd. The preacher testified that he had heard of hundreds of cases of lifelong depression being lifted when people encountered laughter brought on in a meeting by The Holy Ghost. I couldn't stop laughing, and though I was not suffering from depression, it was an experience I will never forget. He asked that anyone with a healing testimony come forward to testify as to what The Lord had done and I've never seen a longer line of people waiting to testify. The first one to speak couldn't stop laughing long enough to testify and the laughter continued for hours. We came back through the convention center about an hour-and-a-half after they excused everyone and there were still several dozen people lying in the floor or sitting in their seats laughing un-controllably. I believe it is a wonder and KNOW that it was God. You don't have to guess when it is from God. If there is any doubt, it is NOT God. It was NOT manufactured. It was The Holy Spirit Who brought it to pass.

 

[God's Truth]

I was EXTREMELY skeptical of 'holy laughter' until I attended a meeting where just that broke out through the crowd. The preacher testified that he had heard of hundreds of cases of lifelong depression being lifted when people encountered laughter brought on in a meeting by The Holy Ghost. I couldn't stop laughing, and though I was not suffering from depression, it was an experience I will never forget. He asked that anyone with a healing testimony come forward to testify as to what The Lord had done and I've never seen a longer line of people waiting to testify. The first one to speak couldn't stop laughing long enough to testify and the laughter continued for hours. We came back through the convention center about an hour-and-a-half after they excused everyone and there were still several dozen people lying in the floor or sitting in their seats laughing un-controllably. I believe it is a wonder and KNOW that it was God. You don't have to guess when it is from God. If there is any doubt, it is NOT God. It was NOT manufactured. It was The Holy Spirit Who brought it to pass.

No such thing in the Bible.

Please watch the videos I posted.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

No such thing in the Bible.

Please watch the videos I posted.

I've previously seen videos of people howling and barking like dogs. Since dogs are considered an unclean animal, I have a difficult time believing those instances were brought on by the Holy Spirit. Watching some of the videos in the past have sent chills up my spine, and not the good kind.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

I was EXTREMELY skeptical of 'holy laughter' until I attended a meeting where just that broke out through the crowd. The preacher testified that he had heard of hundreds of cases of lifelong depression being lifted when people encountered laughter brought on in a meeting by The Holy Ghost. I couldn't stop laughing, and though I was not suffering from depression, it was an experience I will never forget. He asked that anyone with a healing testimony come forward to testify as to what The Lord had done and I've never seen a longer line of people waiting to testify. The first one to speak couldn't stop laughing long enough to testify and the laughter continued for hours. We came back through the convention center about an hour-and-a-half after they excused everyone and there were still several dozen people lying in the floor or sitting in their seats laughing un-controllably. I believe it is a wonder and KNOW that it was God. You don't have to guess when it is from God. If there is any doubt, it is NOT God. It was NOT manufactured. It was The Holy Spirit Who brought it to pass.

Was there anything at the service that made you feel uncomfortable, not of the Holy Spirit? Or were you convinced this was of the Holy Spirit from the beginning? You may not be able to answer this, but did anyone claim healing who has now lost that healing? I believe God's healing is normally permanent, not dependent upon our emotion.