My Ignored List

[Nang]

He cannot harm you. And, curiously, I believe it is harm he intends.

This kind of response bothers me . . .

You are judging the heart motives of one who you feel judged you.

This will go nowhere.

Is it possible for those who feel offended to examine themselves in order to give answer with a reason for their faith, and leave it at that before our actual Judge?

 

[bybee]

This kind of response bothers me . . .

You are judging the heart motives of one who you feel judged you.

This will go nowhere.

Is it possible for those who feel offended to examine themselves in order to give answer with a reason for their faith, and leave it at that before our actual Judge?

You are correct Nang. I stand corrected and rightly so.
I shall endeavor to avoid those whose motivation I find suspect.
It is not my problem.

 

[IMJerusha]

Your indignation is understood, but is the alternative any better? Is it right or faithful to the gospel of Jesus Christ, for any to give universal assurance, that all is well, and offer spiritual peace where there is no peace, to unrepentant souls who need to hear the command to repent of sins and false beliefs?

IOW's isn't it God's wisdom to commission His own, to separate truth from error, and who will they prove to be, but those who testify to the saving grace of God?

Somebody must discern and preach the truths of God . . . Why not the saved, faithful, confessional, and educated sons of God?

I truly will always remain suspect of any opposition against believers confessing the Savior of God, who witness to and proclaim the Holy Scriptures of God.

I know you didn't ask this of me but I would like to put in some of my own address to this, if I may. A long time ago, in my Lutheran days and my under 13 years of age days, I lived in New York where the neighborhood was full of people from all different faiths. It was a wonderful neighborhood to grow up in and people were kind to one another. Was I to think that only my denomination had things right when I evidenced so much of the love of Yeshua in all of my neighbors? No, the example of my neighbors was that God has ways we don't fully understand and if we trust Him and do as He and Yeshua has taught then we will eventually learn about His ways. We don't separate truth from error on our own, we do it with the help of the Ruach and there is no way the Ruach would violate God's commands. So, if some have gotten the idea that they have the Godly right to declare who is a believer and who is not, they haven't tested the spirit they're representing. They've chosen to cling to their doctrine and lean on their own understanding. No one has the Godly right to judge who is in Yeshua and who is not. This is what Scripture tells us; if someone claims Yeshua, they are members of the Body. If they deny Yeshua, they are not members of the Body. To step beyond that is not Godly wisdom because there is no wisdom in criticizing God's leading of people through the Ruach.

 

[IMJerusha]

I've come to the conclusion that Meshak and God's unTruth are both sitting on that fence between law and grace, and it's given them both a wedgie. Thus their sour attitute.

No one can be on the fence between law and grace. God's Grace exists. God's Law exists. And Yeshua exists as our New Covenant and bridge between God's Grace and Law. If you're going to criticize some for being between the two, you had best be criticizing Paul. 1 Corinthians 9:1-12 "Am I not a free man? Am I not an apostle? Haven't I seen Jesus our Lord? And aren't you the result of my work for the Lord? Even if others do not accept me as an apostle, surely you do! Because of your life in union with the Lord you yourselves are proof of the fact that I am an apostle. When people criticize me, this is how I defend myself: Don't I have the right to be given food and drink for my work? Don't I have the right to follow the example of the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Peter, by taking a Christian wife with me on my trips? Or are Barnabas and I the only ones who have to work for our living? What soldiers ever have to pay their own expenses in the army? What farmers do not eat the grapes from their own vineyard? What shepherds do not use the milk from their own sheep?
I don't have to limit myself to these everyday examples, because the Law says the same thing. We read in the Law of Moses, 'Do not muzzle an ox when you are using it to thresh grain.' Now, is God concerned about oxen? Didn't he really mean us when he said that? Of course that was written for us. Anyone who plows and anyone who reaps should do their work in the hope of getting a share of the crop. We have sown spiritual seed among you. Is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? If others have the right to expect this from you, don't we have an even greater right? But we haven't made use of this right. Instead, we have endured everything in order not to put any obstacle in the way of the Good News about Christ."

 

[IMJerusha]

I remember him disagreeing with you, but I do not recall what it was about.

Being on Ignore does not prevent you from defending yourself when you feel you have been wronged.

Yes, you do, because I brought it to your attention. For some reason, Truster has it in his mind that anyone who uses the name Jesus, Iesous, Eashoa, Yeshua or God and Lord as opposed to Yah Vey or Elohim is outside the Body. He refused to hear what I had to say on the matter and put me on ignore. Scripture tells us (Matthew 18:15-20) that when someone wrongs us/sins, we are to go to that person to try to work it out. How am I to do that if I am on ignore?
In Truth, Truster was wrong from the gitgo by making the proclamation he did if he felt we were truly sinning. He should have approached us first privately and individually. That more than anything proved his point false. He may be convicted to use Yah Shua and Elohim but that does not mean that we too are convicted in this manner. I don't hold against him God's leading but rather his condemnation. I have tested his spirit of condemnation against God's Word and found it wanting.

 

[Nang]

It is a very delicate chore, to remain faithful to the plumbline (Holy Scripture) provided by God, while evaluating doctrines taught, and at the same time, to avoid judging the eternal fate of others.

The former is revealed to us; the latter is not for us to know.

The lesson I am trying to learn and perfect, is to better keep my responses to others strictly according to Scripture, rather than responding emotionally according to my own understanding. I have too often failed to utilize the divine plumbline, and have been found guilty of judging others' hearts rather than just standing against their erroneous beliefs.

In these sorry post modern times, when all things are considered relative, and little heed or respect is afforded the Word of God, pretty much anything goes . . . And I am galled in my spirit with wicked religious messages being called "good" and the true message and Doctrine of Christ being opposed and called "evil." (Not every expression of faith will prove true!)

Such things happening all around us are the Judgments of God. He is observing all the false worships, and will eventually destroy them, in His time, and all I can do is remain faithful, giving close heed to His plumbline, trusting that all things will work for my good because I love Him.

It is not easy to do, for my temperament is to fight against error and abuse of the Word, but more and more I am learning my love of God must reflect in my reactions when I find myself disagreeing doctrinally, or when my beliefs are attacked.

IOW's, all these things will be shaken out, and meanwhile I must guard my behavior while really and truly resting in the wisdom of Soverign God.

FWIW . . .

Nang

 

[glorydaz]

Ah, well, Glorydaz calls that hypocrisy but, be that as it may, Truster believes me to be unworthy of the faith. He shot his soul destroying arrows then slapped me on ignore to prevent me from defending myself with anything, let alone honor or hypocrisy. I was wondering if you caught that?

It's interesting how you take it upon yourself to define what I call "hypocrisy". I don't call defending yourself "hypocrisy". I call speaking out of both sides of your mouth hypocrisy. Until you are able to understand my posts, you'd best restrict yourself to answering them directly without your poor attempts to interpret them to others.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

From Coleridge's Aids to Reflection, drawing from Leighton and adding a comment of his own:

The boasted peaceableness about questions of faith too often proceeds from a superficial temper, and not seldom from a supercilious disdain of whatever has no marketable use or value, and from indifference to religion itself. Toleration is a herb of spontaneous growth in the garden of indifference; but the weed has none of the virtues of the medicinal plant, reared by humility in the garden of zeal. Those, who regard religion as matters of taste, may consistently include all religious differences in the old adage de gustibus non est disputandum. And many there be of Gallio's temper, who care for none of these things, and who account all questions in religion, as he did, but matters of words and names. And by this all religions may agree together.
...

I shall believe our present religious tolerancy to proceed from the abundance of our charity and good sense, when I see proofs that we are equally cool and forbearing as litigants and political partizans.

The answer is not to be contentious, contemptuous, short-tempered, or impatient in matters of religious difference; but it is a sign of imbalance if we are more zealous in civil matters than in spiritual, or if in spiritual matters we are more zealous for minute points than for major doctrines. As is mentioned a littler further on:

Truth needs not the service of passion; yea, nothing so disserves it, as passion when set to serve it. The Spirit of truth is withal the Spirit of meekness. The Dove that rested on that great champion of truth, who is The Truth itself, is from Him derived to the lovers of truth, and they ought to seek the participation of it. Imprudence makes some kind of Christians lose much of their labour, in speaking for religion, and drive those further off, whom they would draw into it.
​

AMR

 

[glorydaz]

No one can be on the fence between law and grace. God's Grace exists. God's Law exists. And Yeshua exists as our New Covenant. If you're going to criticize some for being between the two, you had best be criticizing Paul. 1 Corinthians 9:1-12 "Am I not a free man? Am I not an apostle? Haven't I seen Jesus our Lord? And aren't you the result of my work for the Lord? Even if others do not accept me as an apostle, surely you do! Because of your life in union with the Lord you yourselves are proof of the fact that I am an apostle. When people criticize me, this is how I defend myself: Don't I have the right to be given food and drink for my work? Don't I have the right to follow the example of the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Peter, by taking a Christian wife with me on my trips? Or are Barnabas and I the only ones who have to work for our living? What soldiers ever have to pay their own expenses in the army? What farmers do not eat the grapes from their own vineyard? What shepherds do not use the milk from their own sheep?
I don't have to limit myself to these everyday examples, because the Law says the same thing. We read in the Law of Moses, 'Do not muzzle an ox when you are using it to thresh grain.' Now, is God concerned about oxen? Didn't he really mean us when he said that? Of course that was written for us. Anyone who plows and anyone who reaps should do their work in the hope of getting a share of the crop. We have sown spiritual seed among you. Is it too much if we reap material benefits from you? If others have the right to expect this from you, don't we have an even greater right? But we haven't made use of this right. Instead, we have endured everything in order not to put any obstacle in the way of the Good News about Christ."

As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. Someone who sits on the fence between law and grace uses the law "unlawfully"...preaching it was made for the righteousness man and not for sinners. They have no idea the purpose of the law is fulfilled in us when we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. You, for example, use the law unlawfully, by insisting righteousness comes from keeping the commandments. Don't even try to deny it....it's what you preach, even while you deny it (hypocrite). The law is for exposing sin and to bring us to Christ....and can never give life, in and of itself.

1 Tim. 1:7-10
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;​

 

[IMJerusha]

It's interesting how you take it upon yourself to define what I call "hypocrisy". I don't call defending yourself "hypocrisy". I call speaking out of both sides of your mouth hypocrisy. Until you are able to understand my posts, you'd best restrict yourself to answering them directly without your poor attempts to interpret them to others.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3714539&postcount=54

 

[glorydaz]

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3714539&postcount=54

Yep, and you are a hypocrite....just as I said.

 

[IMJerusha]

As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. Someone who sits on the fence between law and grace uses the law "unlawfully"...preaching it was made for the righteousness man and not for sinners. They have no idea the purpose of the law is fulfilled in us when we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. You, for example, use the law unlawfully, by insisting righteousness comes from keeping the commandments. Don't even try to deny it....it's what you preach, even while you deny it (hypocrite). The law is for exposing sin and to bring us to Christ....and can never give life, in and of itself.

1 Tim. 1:7-10
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;​

It doesn't make any difference to you what someone preaches God's Law for. You read the word "Law" and come unglued in condemnation. I have never put forth God's Law for salvation but rather for the same reason Yeshua, Paul, James, John, Matthew, Peter, Mark, Luke, and Jude have. Get over it.

 

[IMJerusha]

Yep, and you are a hypocrite....just as I said.

You define yourself better than I ever could.
I would that we "focus on our Example of love and prove ourselves His for His sake."
But you'll have none of it, an imaginary warrior against an imaginary foe.
The Body isn't your enemy, HaSatan is.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You, for example, use the law unlawfully, by insisting righteousness comes from keeping the commandments.

No one becomes righteous by keeping the commandments.
The righteous keep the commandments because the righteous are righteous and the commandments are righteous.

What does the commandments say?
"Thou shalt not murder."

If you murder, you are not righteous.
If you are righteous, you will not murder.

The righteous do by the very nature of being righteous the things contained in the law.

Romans 2:13-15 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )​

The law cannot make someone righteous.

Galatians 3:21 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.​

The law can only reveal unrighteousness.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

 

[IMJerusha]

No one becomes righteous by keeping the commandments.
The righteous keep the commandments because the righteous are righteous and the commandments are righteous.

What does the commandments say?
"Thou shalt not murder."

If you murder, you are not righteous.
If you are righteous, you will not murder.

The righteous do by the very nature of being righteous the things contained in the law.

Romans 2:13-15 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )​

The law cannot make someone righteous.

Galatians 3:21 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.​

The law can only reveal unrighteousness.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

I've tried to explain this....not exactly this way, however. I like the way you explain it. Only those who love God and Yeshua listen to the Ruach and follow His leading in obedience to God.

 

[intojoy]

I've tried to explain this....not exactly this way, however. I like the way you explain it. Only those who love God and Yeshua listen to the Ruach and follow His leading in obedience to God.

That's true those are the ones who listen. Kid.

 

[IMJerusha]

Kid.

Now THAT I'll take as a compliment!

 

[glorydaz]

No one becomes righteous by keeping the commandments.
The righteous keep the commandments because the righteous are righteous and the commandments are righteous.

What does the commandments say?
"Thou shalt not murder."

If you murder, you are not righteous.
If you are righteous, you will not murder.

The righteous do by the very nature of being righteous the things contained in the law.

Romans 2:13-15 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )​

The law cannot make someone righteous.

Galatians 3:21 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.​

The law can only reveal unrighteousness.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

Good post, as far as it goes. And how do the righteous keep the commandments which are righteous? Do not all the law and propehts hang on love? Is it not when the love of God is shed abroad on our hearts by the Holy Spirit....it's what believing unto righteousness actually means, you know? Do we keep them by our own efforts or by being created IN Christ as new creatures? Are we our own workmanship or God's?

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;​

If we are still laboring to enter into rest by keeping the commandments, then we have not entered into His rest.

 

[glorydaz]

You define yourself better than I ever could.
I would that we "focus on our Example of love and prove ourselves His for His sake."
But you'll have none of it, an imaginary warrior against an imaginary foe.The Body isn't your enemy, HaSatan is.

Are you related to God's unTruth? You certainly sound like her. Here again you are trying to tell me all about me and my problems, and you are flaunting your little self upon your catwalk. :chuckle:


I will never play the fakey "holier than thou" role you insist on playing. It isn't an "essential" of salvation. In fact, it's the sign of a hypocrite....as I"ve told you before. You would rather we all simper like Jason, wouldn't you? Alas, not all of us will join you in your white wash party.

 

[glorydaz]

It doesn't make any difference to you what someone preaches God's Law for. You read the word "Law" and come unglued in condemnation. I have never put forth God's Law for salvation but rather for the same reason Yeshua, Paul, James, John, Matthew, Peter, Mark, Luke, and Jude have. Get over it.

Not a one of them preaches we step in and out of Christ like He's a revolving door. You do. That's because you try to follow the law for righteousness....in spite of all your denials to the contrary.