Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

Status
Not open for further replies.

Aimiel

New member
I don't see how you read no time/space into the phrase. Chaos went to complexity, but there is nothing in the phrases to support no time. Time is not a created thing like the measures of time are. You have an assumption, not a self-evident fact.
I don't see how anyone with any sense can say that, "...the first day," means anything except the fact that God created time 24 hours before THE FIRST DAY ended. :duh:
 

Aimiel

New member
Ps. 90:2 There is a moment before and after creation. Endless time (duration, sequence, succession) is fully consistent with Scripture, logic, science.
Yes, but only because it was imagined by temporal beings, logical thought-processes and not reading and believing God's Word.
If we get rid of every time piece in the world, time still marches on because it is a concept of duration, not a thing like a rock or person. You can stare at a clock and measure time consciously. When you are sleeping or if the clock battery dies, succession still marches on.
When God withdraws all of space and there is no more universe, time will also be laid to rest.
God had triune, personal relations before material creation that involved succession in His being (think, act, feel successively like Scripture shows vs eternal now Platonic philosophy adopted by Augustine that you now uncritically embrace).
Scriptures written by temporal beings, contemplating the infinite God, Who simply doesn't fit into their head containing a finite number of brain cells.
Alpha and Omega is eternality, no beginning, no end, not timeless, no sequence.
To me it shows Him as the author and finisher of time itself, as well as space and every thing in it.
Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions.
Pot: Kettle... Kettle: Pot.
Jesus experienced time fully as the God-Man. There is no problem for a personal being to experience duration. Timelessness is not found in Scripture nor is it logical, just pagan philosophical.
It is found in Scripture, you just aren't looking at His Word correctly. Your brain is in a vise created by higher education.
If you think time is a limitation for God like it is for us, you are wrong.
I agree. It isn't. He can see the headlines on the last newspaper that will ever be printed (or last website that will ever be broadcast rather).
I do not see why you cling to a wrong idea when alternate ones are more evidence based. If you are not familiar with the academic debate about time, I would be slower to be so closed/dogmatic about your view.
I'm not dogmatic at all, but you are.
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
I don't see how anyone with any sense can say that, "...the first day," means anything except the fact that God created time 24 hours before THE FIRST DAY ended. :duh:

24 hours demarcated the first day of the creation week. The context is about the creation of material universe, earth, man. It does not tell us about the nature of time/eternity before material creation.

William Lane Craig says that God was timeless before creation, tensed/temporal after creation. He is part right.

Many say that God is timeless before and after creation with Jesus being the exception for 33 years (not that He did not cease to be God just because He experienced earth time).

Nicholas Wolterstorff is correct to promote unqualified divine temporality.

Just because you have not done your homework does not mean I have not. Just because you don't understand it does not mean you are infallible.

http://www.amazon.com/God-Time-Views-Paul-Helm/dp/0830815511
 

godrulz

New member
Hall of Fame
Adding words to The Holy Scriptures doesn't help one come towards Truth.

I am not adding words, but you are. The issue is interpretation, not addition. You cannot defend timelessness from Scripture, but we can link it to pagan Plato.
 

Aimiel

New member
Actually, you are...

Scripture: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Godrulz: "24 hours demarcated the first day of the creation week."

That is adding words to Scripture to make it mean what you like.
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Actually, you are...

Scripture: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Godrulz: "24 hours demarcated the first day of the creation week."

That is adding words to Scripture to make it mean what you like.
Because you're not doing that.:rolleyes:
 

Aimiel

New member
God has shown Himself to be God, even above time.

He knows the end from the beginning, because He created time and space.

If I'm adding to Scripture, I'd like to know where.
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
God has shown Himself to be God, even above time.

He knows the end from the beginning, because He created time and space.

If I'm adding to Scripture, I'd like to know where.
Show me where time and space are said to be created and I'll concede.
 

Aimiel

New member
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
FAIL!
 

JosephR

New member
In the beggining,, you should have stopped right there..

The first three words of the Bible show the creation and start of time, physical time as we know it..

Holy moly I have never see. Such a large thread,, I am on my phone and only read the first and last page. So if someone has said that allready I appologize. I will read more when I get back to my PC,, I just wanted to say what I said up top and to add....
To say that God is in time would be to say a cartoonist is In the cartoon, that a programmer is in the game, that an authors is in the pages...time as we know it I. The physical realm began with.. In the beginning. Period, stop right there,, in the beginning of what? Of time of coarse .God created the heavens and the eArth .. First we have a plane drawn.. A blank canvas we call time space, then God created the heavens and the eArth within timespace..

I want to discuss time itself and am looking for a thread.. If not I will make one tomorrow :)


Posted from the TOL App!
 

JosephR

New member
Just because you don't get it doesn't mean we aren't discussing matters of God. Some people can swim, and some have to wade no further than their chests. God made both - don't make hasty assumptions.

Not being able to explain quantum physics to you, does not mean you are smarter than a rocket scientist - just the opposite (a few others need to learn this truth too so you are in good company and it's a fantastic truth to get under one's belt). Ignorance is not bliss nor a license to think you are brilliant.

Hey Lon and all reading,
There is something that comes to mind as I am going over this is my head and I want to type it out before I go to sleep and forget:) in the subject of the physical property's of time, one thing sticks out to me. Super position, when an atom appears to be in 2 or more places at one time. They can also transport matter now over long distances just it is one atom at a time, so it would take years to how to say, transport like a Star Trek transporter one grain of sand.. However those atoms in super position do seem to be out of time. And what I mean is there is no energy burn for the transportation or movement, so another words they are not transporting really they are time traveling or existing in two or more different physical states at the same time,,, now I have worded this terribly or maybe you get what I am saying.. But mainly I just wanted to type this out so I can come back and refine what I am saying.
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
In the beggining,, you should have stopped right there..

The first three words of the Bible show the creation and start of time, physical time as we know it..
No they don't. There is absolutely no indication that the "beginning" is the beginning of time. In fact, the clear indication is that it is the beginning of creation.

So, again, can any of you who claim time was a creation of God and not simply extant as a result of existence itself [that is God's existence as He has always been] show me that He created it?

And can you logically explain what God was doing before time?

Hint: No.

Do you know why you can't? Because the phrase "before time" is an oxymoron and non sequitur, as if there is no time there can be no "before."

To say that God is in time would be to say a cartoonist is In the cartoon, that a programmer is in the game, that an authors is in the pages...time as we know it I. The physical realm began with.. In the beginning. Period, stop right there,, in the beginning of what? Of time of coarse .God created the heavens and the eArth .. First we have a plane drawn.. A blank canvas we call time space, then God created the heavens and the eArth within timespace..
:rotfl:

Your argument only works if God created time, which is something you, and a host of others, have failed to demonstrate.

You claim that the "beginning" of Genesis 1:1 is the beginning of time without any clear evidence to support it.

And if you want to make your claim then explain what the "beginning" of John 1:1 is as it is clearly not the same as that of Genesis 1:1, seeing as how it discusses the Word [Logos] being there, being with God and being God. God has always been, and thus has always been the Word, therefore the "beginning" of John 1:1 must necessarily take place prior to the "beginning" of Genesis 1:1, as Genesis 1:1 is clearly about the time God created the Heavens and the Earth. Unless you think God created them at the same exact moment He began to exist? Which would them mean you think God began to exist at some point. You don't think that do you?

You openly pull your argument that it means the beginning of time out of thin air, as you clearly admit that it doesn't state within the verse, therefore you openly assume it means what you think it means, without any support. You are reading your own bias into the verse.

You have failed just as spectacularly as Aimiel.
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Since you cannot even logically explain even the existence of your particular deity---who cares?
I missed your invitation into this conversation. From what I can tell this is between myself and a fellow believer in said deity, so your petulance is irrelevant.
 

Aimiel

New member
The beginning is obviously time. What else could beginning mean? God did not begin. Jesus is eternal. Time began then creation. How else could it be that there will be an end? Time began when God created it, else He would be slave to it.

Posted from the TOL App!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top