Received because Given !

[beloved57]

What God gives, its received. For instance, if a person lies unconscious, and one is trained to render cpr, well the one giving the cpr is the giver, the one receiving it is the unconscious victim. Now once the victim receives the cpr they are resuscitated . Now did the revived victim receive the cpr because it was offered him or her ? No, they received it because it was given to them, we can say it was a gift bestowed upon them, or imparted into them by the generosity of the giver. Its the same thing with spiritually dead sinners, they receive life, reviving unto spiritual life as a gift from God, it wasn't offered them, it was given Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Rom 5:17

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[beloved57]

Once again, we are as vessels, as such we cannot but receive what is poured into us. The work of the Spirit is said to be a pouring forth Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

The word shed here is the greek word ekcheō and means:

1. to pour out, shed forth See Acts 2:17-18

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Remember when the gentiles received the Holy Ghost Acts 10:45,47

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

It was called a gift here also Acts 11:17


Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

These Spiritual things were received because God sovereignly gave them.

 

[marke]

Once again, we are as vessels, as such we cannot but receive what is poured into us. The work of the Spirit is said to be a pouring forth Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

The word shed here is the greek word ekcheō and means:

1. to pour out, shed forth See Acts 2:17-18

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Remember when the gentiles received the Holy Ghost Acts 10:45,47

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

It was called a gift here also Acts 11:17


Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

These Spiritual things were received because God sovereignly gave them.

OT Jews tried to blame God for their sins just as NT Calvinists try to blame God for human sins, but they are wrong. God gives sinners the ability to believe and receive His word but when they rebel it is not because God made them rebel or made them to rebel or caused them to be unable to believe and receive His word, but because they hardened their own hearts and brought God's judgment on themselves for their own rebellion. God does not make sinners incapable of believing God so He can torture them in hell forever for not believing God.

Jeremiah 7

2 Stand in the gate of the Lord's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord.

3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.

4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.

5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.

9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;

10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.

 

[JudgeRightly]

What God gives, its received.

Not always.

For instance, if a person lies unconscious, and one is trained to render cpr, well the one giving the cpr is the giver, the one receiving it is the unconscious victim. Now once the victim receives the cpr they are resuscitated . Now did the revived victim receive the cpr because it was offered him or her ? No, they received it because it was given to them, we can say it was a gift bestowed upon them, or imparted into them by the generosity of the giver.

You're analogy is great, except for the fact that not everyone who receives CPR is resuscitated. Some people still die, no matter how much CPR is given.

Its the same thing with spiritually dead sinners, they receive life, reviving unto spiritual life as a gift from God, it wasn't offered them, it was given

Nope. What spiritually dead sinners receive is the gospel, which is able to bring them life.

What they do with it after receiving it is another matter.

Your argument falls apart when you consider that "Christ came unto His own, but His own received Him NOT!"

God gave His Son to die for the world, but His own people did not receive Him! Instead, God had to cut off unbelieving Israel and turn to the Gentiles.

Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Rom 5:17

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Not one of these verses establishes your claim that God giving something effectually causes someone to receive it. In fact, Scripture says the OPPOSITE!

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. - John 3:16-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John3:16-17&version=NKJV

He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. - John 1:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:11&version=NKJV

 

[beloved57]

Not always.



You're analogy is great, except for the fact that not everyone who receives CPR is resuscitated. Some people still die, no matter how much CPR is given.



Nope. What spiritually dead sinners receive is the gospel, which is able to bring them life.

What they do with it after receiving it is another matter.

Your argument falls apart when you consider that "Christ came unto His own, but His own received Him NOT!"

God gave His Son to die for the world, but His own people did not receive Him! Instead, God had to cut off unbelieving Israel and turn to the Gentiles.



Not one of these verses establishes your claim that God giving something effectually causes someone to receive it. In fact, Scripture says the OPPOSITE!

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. - John 3:16-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John3:16-17&version=NKJV

He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. - John 1:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:11&version=NKJV

No problem if one dies, because Gods cpr raises from the dead.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No problem if one dies, because Gods cpr raises from the dead.

CPR doesn't bring people back to life, it only restarts their heart.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is enough to restart someone's heart, but that doesn't mean they want their heart restarted.

 

[beloved57]

CPR doesn't bring people back to life, it only restarts their heart.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is enough to restart someone's heart, but that doesn't mean they want their heart restarted.

God brings people back to life is the point.

 

[beloved57]

CPR doesn't bring people back to life, it only restarts their heart.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is enough to restart someone's heart, but that doesn't mean they want their heart restarted.

Plus you are missing the point in another way, that is when someone receives cpr they are passive, its not offered them, they dont make a choice to take it, they received it because it was given to them, that's the nature of how God gives spiritual gifts and they're received by whom He gives to,

 

[JudgeRightly]

God brings people back to life is the point.

Indeed He does!

Plus you are missing the point in another way, that is when someone receives cpr they are passive, its not offered them, they dont make a choice to take it, they received it because it was given to them, that's the nature of how God gives spiritual gifts and they're received by whom He gives to,

And yet, the person who received CPR can take the life that was restored to them, and use it to shoot themselves in the head with a gun, no?

Just because God gives a gift, doesn't mean that the person receives it.

That's where your analogy fails...

 

[beloved57]

Indeed He does!



And yet, the person who received CPR can take the life that was restored to them, and use it to shoot themselves in the head with a gun, no?

Just because God gives a gift, doesn't mean that the person receives it.

That's where your analogy fails...

You missing the point, cpr is given to a person and they receive it because it was given. Its not offered, made available, but given. With God giving and the recipient receiving what is given are one and the same.

 

[Gary K]

You missing the point, cpr is given to a person and they receive it because it was given. Its not offered, made available, but given. With God giving and the recipient receiving what is given are one and the same.

So, your assumption is that everyone is unconscious because cpr is given while the person is unconscious. They have no choice in the matter. They can neither choose to accept it nor refuse to accept it.

What a loving god you worship.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You missing the point, cpr is given to a person and they receive it because it was given. Its not offered, made available, but given. With God giving and the recipient receiving what is given are one and the same.

Again: And yet, the person who received CPR can take the life that was restored to them, and use it to shoot themselves in the head with a gun, no?

 

[beloved57]

So, your assumption is that everyone is unconscious because cpr is given while the person is unconscious. They have no choice in the matter. They can neither choose to accept it nor refuse to accept it.

What a loving god you worship.

Hes so loving He gives a dead person life.

 

[beloved57]

Again: And yet, the person who received CPR can take the life that was restored to them, and use it to shoot themselves in the head with a gun, no?

You still miss the point !

 

[JudgeRightly]

You still miss the point !

Saying that I'm missing the point when what I said completely destroys your argument doesn't make it so, B57.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Hes so loving He gives a dead person life.

He's so loving that he sent His Son to die for the entire world.

 

[beloved57]

Saying that I'm missing the point when what I said completely destroys your argument doesn't make it so, B57.

You are missing the point.

 

[beloved57]

He's so loving that he sent His Son to die for the entire world.

If they elect, which by His death they alone receive life because He gave it Jn 6:33


For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

So whoever He doesnt give life, they are exempt from the world He gave life unto.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are missing the point.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

If they elect, which by His death they alone receive life because He gave it

No, that's you reading your beliefs onto scripture.

Scripture, however, does not say that only the elect are saved, and in fact, it shows many of the elect going to hell!

Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Yes, "the world." Not "the world of God's elect" (a phrase not found in scripture), not "the elect" (the word elect is not in the verse, nor is the word even in chapter 6 at all). "THE WORLD."

So whoever He doesnt give life, they are exempt from the world He gave life unto.

You're presenting a false dichotomy. The verse says God gives life to the world. No exceptions. The alternative to your false dichotomy is that not everyone in the world He gives life to has received that life, or worse, they receive it, then use it to hate God.

In other words, God sent the gospel out with preachers. There are people who have yet to hear the gospel, and so cannot believe it (you cannot believe something you are unaware of), there are people who hear it, and respond positively to it, and as a result of their belief, God saves them, and there are people who hear the gospel, but reject it, and a subset of those people (who hear and reject the gospel) are those who have grown so calloused to the Gospel, that it has little to no effect on them.

 

[beloved57]

Saying it doesn't make it so.



No, that's you reading your beliefs onto scripture.

Scripture, however, does not say that only the elect are saved, and in fact, it shows many of the elect going to hell!



Yes, "the world." Not "the world of God's elect" (a phrase not found in scripture), not "the elect" (the word elect is not in the verse, nor is the word even in chapter 6 at all). "THE WORLD."



You're presenting a false dichotomy. The verse says God gives life to the world. No exceptions. The alternative to your false dichotomy is that not everyone in the world He gives life to has received that life, or worse, they receive it, then use it to hate God.

In other words, God sent the gospel out with preachers. There are people who have yet to hear the gospel, and so cannot believe it (you cannot believe something you are unaware of), there are people who hear it, and respond positively to it, and as a result of their belief, God saves them, and there are people who hear the gospel, but reject it, and a subset of those people (who hear and reject the gospel) are those who have grown so calloused to the Gospel, that it has little to no effect on them.

Yes you are missing the point. God gives life and then its received. Like a dead person, when God resurrects them, He gave them life as a Gift and so they received life, He didnt offer it to them, He gave life to them.