The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

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DFT_Dave

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Your nice image and commentary is about another theory, General Relativity. Our discussion was about another theory entirely.

This does prove, however, that you haven't fine your due diligence during this discussion - you freely should read a Special Relativity primer to avoid making silly, false assertions.

Space-time is special relativity.
"Einstein in his theory of special relativity, determined that the laws of physics are the same for all non-accelerating observers, and he showed that the speed of light within a vacuum is the same no matter the speed at which an observer travels. As a result, he found that space and time were interwoven into a single continuum known as space-time. Events that occur at the same time for one observer could occur at different times for another."--Space.com

What is the difference between general and special relativity?
"Einstein in his theory of Special Relativity came up with the idea that space and time are not two independent things. This is what is special about this theory. Special relativity basically says that all laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames. The law of gravitation as given by Isaac Newton didn't quite fit into this theory suggested by Einstein. After a lot of thought, Einstein came up with another theory, in 1915, called the General Theory of Relativity. In this theory, Einstein says that the space-time he described in Special Theory of Relativity, which he then considered to be flat, is not flat, but curved. By curved space-time, all he meant was that the Euclidean geometry fails on this surface. It's very tough (almost impossible) for us to imagine the curved 4 dimensional space-time as we are mere 3-Dimensional objects."

You should read a Special Relativity primer to avoid making silly, false assertions.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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The same way they would cover them on a globe I would guess.

--Dave
Dave, on a globe, there's no edge of the earth for water to go off of. So let's try again. How would a flat earth flood to 15 cubits above the highest mountain without all the water falling off the edge faster than the water can rise?

Additional question: How would the flat earth theory explain the "fountains of the great deep" breaking forth?

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gcthomas

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Modern cosmology today is not real science because theories like multi-universes cannot be proven true or false.

It is real science, but it is unknown if Chaotic Inflation (the theory that produces different regions with different physical laws, that you are calling multiverses) is correct. It is science because the theory makes specific predictions about how the universe that we can see. The prediction that I am aware of is that we should see B-mode polarisation in the microwave background radiation. If that feature is actually observed (and it could be in the next few months) than that will provide some support for the theory.

One theory absurdly states that universes can "miraculously" be created out of nothingness. How convenient, especially when a finely tuned universe is required for life to exist as we know it. Intelligent life logically implies an intelligent Creator, but not if "modern cosmologists" can "imagine" quantum mechanics "by chance" accomplishing the same task.

The microwave background radiation has exactly the same pattern as would be expected if our universe was influences by quantum events when very small, with quantum fluctuations providing tiny density variations that gravity would eventually pull into galaxy clusters as the universe expanded and cooled. (Scroll down to the graphs here - they are very convincing evidence that the bulk of the theory is correct: http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CMB-DT.html)
 

JudgeRightly

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I will "eventually" answer every question. Flat earth and flood are both "literally" Biblical.

--Dave
Dave, how does a flat earth explain Job 26:7, 10?

"7 He stretches out the north over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing."
"10 He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness."

I submit to you that a flat earth cannot be hung on nothing, nor can a 'spotlight' sun have a boundary of light and darkness. These are characteristics of a spherical earth, which (as shown by the above photos that were taken by the Apollo crews) quite literally hangs on nothing, and has a "circular horizon on the face of the waters, at the boundary of light and darkness." We call that a terminator line.

These verses paint a beautiful picture of reality, millennia before we were able to properly study the universe around us.

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Nihilo

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It is real science, but it is unknown if Chaotic Inflation (the theory that produces different regions with different physical laws, that you are calling multiverses) is correct. It is science because the theory makes specific predictions about how the universe that we can see. The prediction that I am aware of is that we should see B-mode polarisation in the microwave background radiation. If that feature is actually observed (and it could be in the next few months) than that will provide some support for the theory.



The microwave background radiation has exactly the same pattern as would be expected if our universe was influences by quantum events when very small, with quantum fluctuations providing tiny density variations that gravity would eventually pull into galaxy clusters as the universe expanded and cooled. (Scroll down to the graphs here - they are very convincing evidence that the bulk of the theory is correct
Do you know the status of the project to detect either dark matter or dark energy? These, together with gravitons, still prove to be the known ghosts in modern science, right? We've never seen them, but they exist according to equations, correct? It will be interesting when these things are detected.
 

Nihilo

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Using homonymy flagrantly, belies you as a brute. It's a tender, witty thing, to employ homonymy and when you apply it flagrantly you belie that you do not understand the nature of homonymy and other forms of ambiguity.
Do you know the status of the project to detect either dark matter or dark energy? These, together with gravitons, still prove to be the known ghosts in modern science, right? We've never seen them, but they exist according to equations, correct? It will be interesting when these things are detected.
Also, the nonlocal hidden variable, also a no-show. This is the thing that compels particle behavior in the Plank scale range to appear random, and predictable, using confidence intervals, which is a statistical notion, which places particle physics in the statistics department rather than as a physical science. Unless . . . someone can produce that pesky nonlocal hidden variable that protects Bell's Theorem from ever being denied.
 

DFT_Dave

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Dave, on a globe, there's no edge of the earth for water to go off of. So let's try again. How would a flat earth flood to 15 cubits above the highest mountain without all the water falling off the edge faster than the water can rise?

Additional question: How would the flat earth theory explain the "fountains of the great deep" breaking forth?

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

There's no edge that we can can see on the flat earth model, the oceans are surrounded/circled by a wall of ice.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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It is real science, but it is unknown if Chaotic Inflation (the theory that produces different regions with different physical laws, that you are calling multiverses) is correct. It is science because the theory makes specific predictions about how the universe that we can see. The prediction that I am aware of is that we should see B-mode polarisation in the microwave background radiation. If that feature is actually observed (and it could be in the next few months) than that will provide some support for the theory.

The microwave background radiation has exactly the same pattern as would be expected if our universe was influences by quantum events when very small, with quantum fluctuations providing tiny density variations that gravity would eventually pull into galaxy clusters as the universe expanded and cooled. (Scroll down to the graphs here - they are very convincing evidence that the bulk of the theory is correct: http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CMB-DT.html)

We, meaning you and me and 99.9% of the human race will not see "B-mode polarisation in the microwave background radiation", we will be told it has occurred by the "gods" of NASA and we will not be able to dispute these "god" unless we want be called lunatics for the rest of our lives.

Since you didn't get special relativity right, being the expert and all on physics, I don't know what I can believe from you now.

--Dave
 

Greg Jennings

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lAnd yet we're (again, afaik) all creationists who like science, because GOOD science supports the Bible (or at the very least, does not oppose it. So get out of here with your straw-man arguments.

If I hear this said one more time then I'm turning this into a thread about how science disproves literal Genesis
 

gcthomas

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We, meaning you and me and 99.9% of the human race will not see "B-mode polarisation in the microwave background radiation", we will be told it has occurred by the "gods" of NASA and we will not be able to dispute these "god" unless we want be called lunatics for the rest of our lives.

Since you didn't get special relativity right, being the expert and all on physics, I don't know what I can believe from you now.

--Dave

NASA does not control all of science. And science is done in the open, which you'd know if you paid attention to the news. For example, the Bicep2 project, run by a whole load of different universities from several countries, announced they had seen this B-mode light. But after publishing, the rest of the world gets a look and has a say. And guess who provided the information that made the Bicep2 team withdraw their claim by supplying new information? Yes, it was NASA, operating on the wrong side of your global conspiracy.

On Relativity, since I teach that theory to my advanced physics students, I would dearly love to know what I am getting wrong after all these years. Would you enlighten me please? Be specific.
 
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chair

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...

On Relativity, since I teach that theory to my advanced physics students, I would dearly love to know what I am getting wrong after all these years. Would you enlighten me please? Be specific.

I hope I understand Dave's criticism of Relativity. I only have a PhD in Chemistry, and don't know the theory that well. I'm a bit better on Quantum Mechanics, but for some reason that has been spared the wrath of God.
 

SabathMoon

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I've found that nut cases can never be convinced that they are wrong, no matter what the evidence. I end up wasting time trying to get them to see reason. If I give up- they figure they've somehow won.

In short- I am not even going to start on this one.

Have a nice day.
Knowing I do not want to prevent Israel from committing genocide against Arab Muslims, I hope you never learn how often you are wrong. Try to say something smug about that.
 

chair

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Knowing I do not want to prevent Israel from committing genocide against Arab Muslims, I hope you never learn how often you are wrong. Try to say something smug about that.

You do not know what the word "Genocide" means. Look it up. Israel is not perfect, but has never gotten even close to 'genocide'. And sorry- civilians being inadvertently killed during a battle does not qualify as 'genocide'.
 

SabathMoon

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You do not know what the word "Genocide" means. Look it up. Israel is not perfect, but has never gotten even close to 'genocide'. And sorry- civilians being inadvertently killed during a battle does not qualify as 'genocide'.
Inadvertently? You are a liar. Most of the time, the Arabs are defenseless.

Edit: It was a mistake for the UN to prevent Israel from doing this.
 
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