The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[DFT_Dave]

Saying it doesn't make it so, Dave.

Make an argument.

I'm working on it.

--Dave


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[chair]

Gravity is density turned into a "weak magnet" for a globe earth.

--Dave

Dave. You made this statement. I simply want to understand exactly what you mean when you say "density", as I do not understand your statement as-is. You may as well explain what you mean by "weak magnet" while you are at it.

I am not trying to "make a point". I am trying to understand yours. You should be happy to explain your point, not evasive.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Do you understand the arguments being made? How they refute your "evidence" for a flat earth?

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

They oppose it but they don't refute it.

We have to be told/taught that the earth is not what we "see" it as. We see it as flat and stationary.

Theories and formulas based on those theories are mere thought experiments and not empirical evidence or proof of a globe.

Only 24 men have ever, allegedly, been to outer space other than Captain Kirk and his crew. I know the Starship Enterprise explored outer space because we all saw that on TV. NASA productions were not as good.

--Dave

 

[Clete]

They oppose it but they don't refute it.

We have to be told/taught that the earth is not what we "see" it as. We see it as flat and stationary.

Why do you keep saying this?

There is nothing that we see that contradicts a spherical Earth! There's all kinds of things we see that contradict the flat Earth model.

Theories and formulas based on those theories are mere thought experiments and not empirical evidence or proof of a globe.

It is not a thought experiment to say that those who live in the southern hemisphere see a south celestial pole that is not possible on a flat Earth but that is REQUIRED for a spherical Earth.

Only 24 men have ever, allegedly, been to outer space other than Captain Kirk and his crew. I know the Starship Enterprise explored outer space because we all saw that on TV. NASA productions were not as good.

--Dave

That depends entirely on what you define "outer space" as but disregarding that, you do not deny the existence of man made objects in orbit around the Earth, do you?

Orbits cannot work on a flat Earth! The only reason we're able to put anything in orbit is because we understand how gravity works. We know just exactly how fast an object has to go from whatever distance above the surface of the Earth in order for the curvature of the Earth to fall away from the object as the same rate as it is falling toward the Earth. Pretty neat trick! A trick that Space X is in the process of pulling off right this second, as I right this! But it is a completely and utterly impossible trick to pull off unless the Earth is a sphere.

Clete

 

[Right Divider]

That depends entirely on what you define "outer space" as but disregarding that, you do not deny the existence of man made objects in orbit around the Earth, do you?

Orbits cannot work on a flat Earth! The only reason we're able to put anything in orbit is because we understand how gravity works. We know just exactly how fast an object has to go from whatever distance above the surface of the Earth in order for the curvature of the Earth to fall away from the object as the same rate as it is falling toward the Earth. Pretty neat trick! A trick that Space X is in the process of pulling off right this second, as I right this! But it is a completely and utterly impossible trick to pull off unless the Earth is a sphere.

Clete

Dave probably thinks that GPS is also a NASA hoax!

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave. You made this statement. I simply want to understand exactly what you mean when you say "density", as I do not understand your statement as-is. You may as well explain what you mean by "weak magnet" while you are at it.

I am not trying to "make a point". I am trying to understand yours. You should be happy to explain your point, not evasive.

Why things on earth stay on the ground
"The density, or more precisely, the volumetric mass density, of a substance is its mass per unit volume. The symbol most often used for density is ρ, Mathematically, density is defined as mass divided by volume:

p = m / v where ρ is the density, m is the mass, and V is the volume."--Wiki

Tesla believed that electromagnetism was also a key factor, not gravity.

Gravity supposedly keeps everything from flying off a spinning globe and brings order to the entire universe. It's like a "weak selective magnet" that pulls everything toward it's center but ironically allows for things to still move freely on it's surface and, with the aid of wings, move freely through it's atmosphere.

We "can see" that things have mass and volume and therefore weight on what our eyes "can see" is a flat stationary earth. We "cannot see" gravity because it's merely an explanation, not a real thing that tries to make us understand why things are held to a spinning globe that we also "cannot see", except for Captain Kirk and the 24 Saint Astronauts.

--Dave

 

[chair]

Why things on earth stay on the ground
"The density, or more precisely, the volumetric mass density, of a substance is its mass per unit volume. The symbol most often used for density is ρ, Mathematically, density is defined as mass divided by volume:

p = m / v where ρ is the density, m is the mass, and V is the volume."--Wiki

Tesla believed that electromagnetism was also a key factor, not gravity.

Gravity supposedly keeps everything from flying off a spinning globe and brings order to the entire universe. It's like a "weak selective magnet" that pulls everything toward it's center but ironically allows for things to still move freely on it's surface and, with the aid of wings, move freely through it's atmosphere.

We "can see" that things have mass and volume and therefore weight on what our eyes "can see" is a flat stationary earth. We "cannot see" gravity because it's merely an explanation, not a real thing that tries to make us understand why things are held to a spinning globe that we also "cannot see", except for Captain Kirk and the 24 Saint Astronauts.

--Dave

I still don't see what your statement Gravity is density turned into a "weak magnet" for a globe earth is supposed to mean.

You gave the standard definition of density in terms of mass per volume. Good. But who is claiming "Gravity is Density"? Nobody that I know of- unless it is you. Density is not directly related to gravity. Gravity acts on mass, not density.

Why do things fall towards Earth in a Flat Earth model if there is no such thing as gravity?

 

[Right Divider]

Why things on earth stay on the ground
"The density, or more precisely, the volumetric mass density, of a substance is its mass per unit volume. The symbol most often used for density is ρ, Mathematically, density is defined as mass divided by volume:

p = m / v where ρ is the density, m is the mass, and V is the volume."--Wiki

Tesla believed that electromagnetism was also a key factor, not gravity.

Gravity supposedly keeps everything from flying off a spinning globe and brings order to the entire universe. It's like a "weak selective magnet" that pulls everything toward it's center but ironically allows for things to still move freely on it's surface and, with the aid of wings, move freely through it's atmosphere.

We "can see" that things have mass and volume and therefore weight on what our eyes "can see" is a flat stationary earth. We "cannot see" gravity because it's merely an explanation, not a real thing that tries to make us understand why things are held to a spinning globe that we also "cannot see", except for Captain Kirk and the 24 Saint Astronauts.

--Dave

You're really gone off the deep end Dave. There are many forces of nature that we cannot see, but we know for certain that they exist because we can measure them.

As of late you have really proven yourself to be quite the lunatic.

 

[chair]

They oppose it but they don't refute it.

We have to be told/taught that the earth is not what we "see" it as. We see it as flat and stationary.

Theories and formulas based on those theories are mere thought experiments and not empirical evidence or proof of a globe.

Only 24 men have ever, allegedly, been to outer space other than Captain Kirk and his crew. I know the Starship Enterprise explored outer space because we all saw that on TV. NASA productions were not as good.

--Dave

Dave- there were several hundred astronauts. From many countries.

Unless all those countries and people are lying- along with their ground crews, people who watched the launches etc.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Why do you keep saying this?

There is nothing that we see that contradicts a spherical Earth! There's all kinds of things we see that contradict the flat Earth model.

It is not a thought experiment to say that those who live in the southern hemisphere see a south celestial pole that is not possible on a flat Earth but that is REQUIRED for a spherical Earth.

That depends entirely on what you define "outer space" as but disregarding that, you do not deny the existence of man made objects in orbit around the Earth, do you?

Orbits cannot work on a flat Earth! The only reason we're able to put anything in orbit is because we understand how gravity works. We know just exactly how fast an object has to go from whatever distance above the surface of the Earth in order for the curvature of the Earth to fall away from the object as the same rate as it is falling toward the Earth. Pretty neat trick! A trick that Space X is in the process of pulling off right this second, as I right this! But it is a completely and utterly impossible trick to pull off unless the Earth is a sphere.

Clete

Neither you nor I, or anybody else for that matter, have ever seen anything actually "orbit" a globed earth. "Seeing is believing" right?

NASA is a government, secret society, new world order, one world government, agency created when we finally discovered because of rocket technology developed during WWII that the earth was flat, surrounded by an ice wall, and covered by an impenetrable dome. Satan does not want the Bible to be taken seriously--literally, now does he? The Biblical significance of this should be obvious to all, which is why so many Christian, like myself, are interested in this subject today.

I am actually the only one here trying my best to debunk this. You can't debunk something by calling it dumb, stupid, etc. or by just stating the status quo cannot be wrong because how can so many people be wrong.

This is as important a subject as the nature of God, in my opinion.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

I still don't see what your statement Gravity is density turned into a "weak magnet" for a globe earth is supposed to mean.

You gave the standard definition of density in terms of mass per volume. Good. But who is claiming "Gravity is Density"? Nobody that I know of- unless it is you. Density is not directly related to gravity. Gravity acts on mass, not density.

Why do things fall towards Earth in a Flat Earth model if there is no such thing as gravity?

The reason you don't understand what I "mean" is because either you are not to bright or you just don't want there to be any other explanation to be possible other than the one you prefer.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

The reason you don't understand what I "mean" is because either you are not to bright or you just don't want there to be any other explanation to be possible other than the one you prefer.

--Dave

Talk about ad hominem...

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[DFT_Dave]

Dave- there were several hundred astronauts. From many countries.

Unless all those countries and people are lying- along with their ground crews, people who watched the launches etc.

there were several hundred astronauts. From many countries. But, "Only 24 people have traveled beyond low Earth orbit."

And James Kirk. :beanboy:

--Dave

 

[Clete]

Dave probably thinks that GPS is also a NASA hoax!

The only explanation for GPS I've seen on flat-earth websites is that it works off cell phone towers, with no explanation at all of how GPS works even when you have no cell phone reception at all.

 

[Clete]

Neither you nor I, or anybody else for that matter, have ever seen anything actually "orbit" a globed earth. "Seeing is believing" right?

You can see satellite go overhead on every single clear night. They aren't planes. They aren't stars. They're man made satelites that can be predicted to the exact second where they'll be and who can see them. Every single solitary clowdless night.

NASA is a government, secret society, new world order, one world government, agency created when we finally discovered because of rocket technology developed during WWII that the earth was flat, surrounded by an ice wall, and covered by an impenetrable dome.

IMPOSSIBLE conspiracy to maintain.

Space X isn't government owned or run and they launched a rocket off Nasa's main lauch pad for the first time this morning.

Satan does not want the Bible to be taken seriously--literally, now does he?

There is not one word of the bible that is falsified by a spherical Earth.

The Biblical significance of this should be obvious to all, which is why so many Christian, like myself, are interested in this subject today.

Intellectually honest interest requires rational thought, not special pleading fallacies that run to super-secret, impossibly complex and repeatedly debunked conspiracy theories.

I am actually the only one here trying my best to debunk this. You can't debunk something by calling it dumb, stupid, etc. or by just stating the status quo cannot be wrong because how can so many people be wrong.

Actually, Dave I have presented dozens - DOZENS - of actual argument, the vast majority of which I can't even tell if you've read (or in some cases watched). You presented next to nothing in the way of counter arguments. All you've done is wait till a rebutal is a week or so old and then you repeat the origninal argument as though no counter argument has been presented. You're arguing like a Calvinist "argues" against Open Theism, which is nearly not at all. Presenting and then repeating your position is not the same as defending it nor rationally establishing it.

This is as important a subject as the nature of God, in my opinion.

--Dave

Then why don't you stop repeating your position and respond to the clearly presented concise arguments that make your position impossible to rationally cling too? If you put 1/10 of 1% as much effort into attempting to rationally establish the flat-Earth positon as you put into establishing Open Theism, you'd drop it like a hot disk-shaped rock. You'll quickly discover that no such rational effort can be maintained.

If you want to impress me, go through that 15 minute video I posted that dealt almost exclusively with issues surrounding the horizon and present a rebuttal of the arguments presented in that video. But it's gotta be an actual rebuttal that is rationally sound and intellectually rigorous, not a simple statement of the flat-Earth position. Take them on one at a time if you want.

This thread has been quite fun, interesting and educational up to this point but I think I'm running out of new things to learn about the flat-Earth arguments and how to debunk them. It's going to start getting boring unless you engage the debate in a more rigorous manner.

Clete

 

[DFT_Dave]

Nuking the Dome

Operation Fishbowl, what were they bombarding in space???

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Invisible Plasma Shield, Which Protects Earth From Radiation, Discovered 7,200 Miles Above Planet

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

You can see satellite go overhead on every single clear night. They aren't planes. They aren't stars. They're man made satelites that can be predicted to the exact second where they'll be and who can see them. Every single solitary clowdless night.

IMPOSSIBLE conspiracy to maintain.

Space X isn't government owned or run and they launched a rocket off Nasa's main lauch pad for the first time this morning.

There is not one word of the bible that is falsified by a spherical Earth.

Intellectually honest interest requires rational thought, not special pleading fallacies that run to super-secret, impossibly complex and repeatedly debunked conspiracy theories.

Actually, Dave I have presented dozens - DOZENS - of actual argument, the vast majority of which I can't even tell if you've read (or in some cases watched). You presented next to nothing in the way of counter arguments. All you've done is wait till a rebutal is a week or so old and then you repeat the origninal argument as though no counter argument has been presented. You're arguing like a Calvinist "argues" against Open Theism, which is nearly not at all. Presenting and then repeating your position is not the same as defending it nor rationally establishing it.

Then why don't you stop repeating your position and respond to the clearly presented concise arguments that make your position impossible to rationally cling too? If you put 1/10 of 1% as much effort into attempting to rationally establish the flat-Earth positon as you put into establishing Open Theism, you'd drop it like a hot disk-shaped rock. You'll quickly discover that no such rational effort can be maintained.

If you want to impress me, go through that 15 minute video I posted that dealt almost exclusively with issues surrounding the horizon and present a rebuttal of the arguments presented in that video. But it's gotta be an actual rebuttal that is rationally sound and intellectually rigorous, not a simple statement of the flat-Earth position. Take them on one at a time if you want.

This thread has been quite fun, interesting and educational up to this point but I think I'm running out of new things to learn about the flat-Earth arguments and how to debunk them. It's going to start getting boring unless you engage the debate in a more rigorous manner.

Clete

What ever you see "overhead" (plane or satellite) is not seeing it "orbit" a globed earth. By that I mean seeing something, yourself, "orbit" is impossible.

A video you posted had the guy who said that long distance shooters had to adjust for the rotation of the earth, the coriolis effect, that you said was incorrect.

The video about the curve over oceans I have countered with video that shows otherwise. Let everyone see both and decide for themselves.

That you think flat earth is debunked and globe earth is actual arguments is your opinion.

From the earth and from commercial flights everyone experiences and sees a flat stationary earth with straight horizon lines and level oceans. We are being lead to believe it is just the opposite, a spinning globe.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Space Shuttles are jets not gliders

True deception at work here, listen and see for yourself.

--Dave

 

[chair]

there were several hundred astronauts. From many countries. But, "Only 24 people have traveled beyond low Earth orbit."

And James Kirk. :beanboy:

--Dave

Didn't bother following the link, did you?
Orbital space travelers[edit]
Afghanistan Afghanistan[edit]
Abdul Ahad Mohmand (Intercosmos), first Afghan in space — Soyuz TM-6/5
Brazil Brazil[edit]
Marcos Pontes, first Brazilian in space, first lusophone in space, first professional astronaut officially representing a Southern Hemisphere country in space. — Soyuz TMA-8
Bulgaria Bulgaria[edit]
Aleksandar Panayotov Aleksandrov (Intercosmos) — Soyuz TM-5/4
Georgi Ivanov (Intercosmos), first Bulgarian in space. — Soyuz 33
Canada Canada[edit]
Roberta BondarSymbol venus.svg, first Canadian woman in space. — STS-42
Marc Garneau, first Canadian in space. — STS-41-G, STS-77, STS-97
Chris Hadfield, first Canadian to walk in space. — STS-74, STS-100, Soyuz TMA-07M
Guy Laliberté, space tourist — Soyuz TMA-16/14
Steven MacLean — STS-52, STS-115
Julie PayetteSymbol venus.svg — STS-96, STS-127
Robert Thirsk — STS-78, Soyuz TMA-15
Bjarni Tryggvason, born in Iceland — STS-85
Dafydd Williams — STS-90, STS-118
China China[edit]
Chen Dong — Shenzhou 11
Fei Junlong — Shenzhou 6
Jing Haipeng — Shenzhou 7, Shenzhou 9, Shenzhou 11
Liu Boming — Shenzhou 7
Liu Wang — Shenzhou 9
Liu YangSymbol venus.svg, first Chinese woman in space — Shenzhou 9
Nie Haisheng — Shenzhou 6, Shenzhou 10
Wang YapingSymbol venus.svg — Shenzhou 10
Yang Liwei, first Chinese national in space — Shenzhou 5
Zhai Zhigang, first Chinese national to walk in space — Shenzhou 7
Zhang Xiaoguan — Shenzhou 10
Cuba Cuba[edit]
Arnaldo Tamayo Méndez (Intercosmos), the first Cuban and the first person from a country in the Western Hemisphere other than the U.S. to travel to space. He was also the first Hispanophone and first person of African ancestry in space. — Soyuz 38
Czechoslovakia Czechoslovakia[edit]
Vladimír Remek (Intercosmos), first Czech and first non-Soviet European in space. — Soyuz 28
European Space Agency members[edit]
See also: European Astronaut Corps
Some of these astronauts participated in national space programme activity unrelated to their home country's contemporary or subsequent membership of the European Space Agency.

Austria Austria[edit]
Franz Viehböck, first Austrian in space. — Soyuz TM-13/12
Belgium Belgium[edit]
Frank De Winne, EAC — Soyuz TMA-1/TM-34, Soyuz TMA-15
Dirk Frimout, first Belgian in space. — STS-45
Denmark Denmark[edit]
Andreas Mogensen, first Dane in space. — Soyuz TMA-18M/16M
France France[edit]
Patrick Baudry, second Frenchman in space, born in Douala, Cameroon — STS-51-G
Jean-Loup Chrétien, CNES (Intercosmos), first French person in space and first non-Soviet European to walk in space — Soyuz T-6, Soyuz TM-7/6, STS-86
Jean-François Clervoy, EAC — STS-66, STS-84, STS-103
Léopold Eyharts, EAC — Soyuz TM-27/26, STS-122/123
Jean-Jacques Favier, born in Kehl, Germany — STS-78
Claudie André-Deshays HaigneréSymbol venus.svg, EAC, first Frenchwoman in space (Mir, 1996) — Soyuz TM-24/23, Soyuz TM-33/32
Jean-Pierre Haigneré, EAC — Soyuz TM-17/16, Soyuz TM-29
Philippe Perrin, EAC, born in Meknes, Morocco — STS-111
Michel Tognini, EAC — Soyuz TM-15/14, STS-93
Thomas Pesquet — Soyuz MS-03
Germany Germany[edit]
Reinhold Ewald, EAC — Soyuz TM-25/24
Klaus-Dietrich Flade — Soyuz TM-14/13
Reinhard Furrer, born in Wörgl, Austria (1940–1995) — STS-61-A (flew for West Germany)
Alexander Gerst — Soyuz TMA-13M
Sigmund Jähn (Intercosmos), first German in space — Soyuz 31/29 (flew for East Germany)
Ulf Merbold, EAC — STS-9, STS-42, Soyuz TM-20/19 (flew for both West Germany and united Germany)
Ernst Messerschmid — STS-61-A (flew for West Germany)
Thomas Reiter, EAC, first German to walk in space and first ESA astronaut to stay on the ISS. — Soyuz TM-22, STS-121/116
Hans Schlegel, EAC — STS-55, STS-122
Gerhard Thiele, EAC — STS-99
Ulrich Walter — STS-55
Italy Italy[edit]
Maurizio Cheli, EAC — STS-75
Samantha CristoforettiSymbol venus.svg, EAC, first Italian woman in space — Soyuz TMA-15M
Umberto Guidoni, EAC — STS-75, STS-100
Franco Malerba, first Italian in space. — STS-46
Paolo A. Nespoli, EAC — STS-120, Soyuz TMA-20
Luca Parmitano, EAC, first Italian to walk in space.[5] — Soyuz TMA-09M
Roberto Vittori, EAC — Soyuz TM-34/33, Soyuz TMA-6/5, STS-134
Netherlands Netherlands[edit]
André Kuipers, EAC — Soyuz TMA-4/3, Soyuz TMA-03M
Wubbo Ockels, EAC, first Dutchman in space. — STS-61-A
Poland Poland[edit]
Mirosław Hermaszewski (Intercosmos), first Pole in space. — Soyuz 30
Romania Romania[edit]
Dumitru Prunariu (Intercosmos), first Romanian in space. — Soyuz 40
Spain Spain[edit]
Pedro Duque, EAC, first Spaniard in space. — STS-95, Soyuz TMA-3/2
Sweden Sweden[edit]
Christer Fuglesang, EAC, first Swede in space. — STS-116, STS-128
Switzerland Switzerland[edit]
Claude Nicollier, EAC, first Swiss in space. — STS-46, STS-61, STS-75, STS-103
United Kingdom United Kingdom[edit]
Helen SharmanSymbol venus.svg, Project Juno, first Briton in space. — Soyuz TM-12/11
Tim Peake, EAC, first professional British astronaut in space. — Soyuz TMA-19M
Additionally, Michael Foale, born in England to a British father and American mother and a dual citizen of the United Kingdom and the United States, and was raised and educated in England; however, he is a member of NASA's Astronaut Corps and flew as an American.[6] Gregory H. Johnson has foreign (US) citizenship, having been born in the UK to American parents, while Piers Sellers, Nicholas Patrick, Richard Garriott and Mark Shuttleworth have dual nationalities.

Hungary Hungary[edit]
Bertalan Farkas (Intercosmos), first Hungarian in space. — Soyuz 36/35
India India[edit]
Rakesh Sharma (Intercosmos), first Indian national in space. — Soyuz T-11/10
Israel Israel[edit]
Ilan Ramon (1954–2003), first Israeli in space, died on the Columbia. — STS-107
Japan Japan[edit]
Toyohiro Akiyama, first Japanese man in space. — Soyuz TM-11/10
Takao Doi, first Japanese man to walk in space. — STS-87, STS-123
Akihiko Hoshide — STS-124, Soyuz TMA-05M
Mamoru Mohri — STS-47, STS-99

There are more- but you get the idea...on second thought, maybe not.