Cross Reference
New member
I go to a Baptist church. I criticized you but I am not trying to insult you. I have read some of your posts.
If you want me to understand that then don't criticize anyone in an insulting way. Thank you.
I go to a Baptist church. I criticized you but I am not trying to insult you. I have read some of your posts.
If you want me to understand that then don't criticize anyone in an insulting way. Thank you.
Are you criticizing the criticizer???
It is a dark and swirling hole...
Sounds like you are insulting him for criticizing you...
And criticizing him for insulting you...
And both for both...
Have you tried the simple remedy of forgiveness, rather than correcting your brother?
He really and truly is not yours to correct...
It is vanity to correct another's servant...
It is blessed to correct your own...
You body is to be your servant...
Corrections there are a good thing...
Arsenios
Then why are you attempting to correct me?
What have I told you to do?
I was just talking with you about the black hole of correcting another,
And asking you if you had tried just correcting yourself...
And especially your own body...
If you are anything like me, that is full-time, bro...
An unruly donkey, that one...
A.
What have you told me to do????
Who are you?
You take yourself too seriously.
Well, OK - I did tell you to man-up and stop whining about feeling insulted by people who disagree with you...
So I take it back - I DID tell you what to do... But it was in the form of serious jest...
The more you lie, the deep you get. The BYZ text doesn't have it.I don't DO Latin, sorry...
I have no idea what the Latin version of the Greek Original Text that we have transmitted to the present day might say... I simply use the BYZ text, and it has "daily"... The BYZ Greek Text is the Majority Text, and is a critical edition of their amalgam - There are thousands of MSS... The BYZ is sort of "official" out of Constantinople...
works produce gain in the life to come, as well as fruit for here and now.
the main key now is the development of fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, self control, patience, kindness and the like
these impact us for eternal substance and also impact and spread the kingdom of God for the present, here and now touching those around us.
If we are walking in the Spirit/love we are not sinning.
having our eyes on following the law is counterproductive. what we keep our mind focused on will produce that thing. keeping our mind on what we should not do will only make us desire that more.
rather keep your mind/thoughts on heavenly things and love, peace and joy and you will desire to do those things.
Philippians 2.5-11 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: (6) Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, (7) but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. (8) And being found in appearance as a man, he emptied himself and became obedient to death ~ even death on a cross! (9) Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, (11) and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
What does it mean that Christ "emptied" himself? I've seen this clause alluded to on numerous occasions since joining TOL. I've heard it expressed as anything from the eternal Son emptying himself of divine attributes to assertions claiming that Christ actually emptied himself of divinity! I think that that idea is preposterous ~ seriously? the Father willed the Word away? Please! ~ but indeed some hold it. Is there clarity to be gained by examining this passage? I think there is.
This is what I believe it means:
1.Christ is a Title. It perhaps, intimates the pre-incarnate form of the Word of God Who, in the beginning, was with God and was God per John 1:1. and in Whose image we were created. Jesus, of Mary, David and Adam was the body prepared for Him; the human sustance in Whom the Word would "empty" Himself. Certainly not His Divinity, because it could have placed the whole of God's plan for His creation in an irreversible condition had the human Jesus failed. Lucifer almost got away with doing that until his lack of allegiance to God was found out. IOW"S, The Love-allegiance of Jesus TO God, needed to be proven. That is what temptation is all about in case anyone is interested.
2. "Emptied Himself" means, the Word of God subjected himself to the humanity of Jesus. Jesus was given the responsibility of protecting the Word of the Godhead indwelling Him from Satan who needed Him destroyed by centering all his efforts on Jesus to get Him to fail. For His success would Jesus' allegiance to God be made manifest in every way He was directed by His Father when revealing Himself as a human being, a begotten son. It was that which could only accomplish the task given him.
In this, we might say the Word subjected Himself to the man Jesus and the man Jesus subjected himself to His Father. Trust was the word/order of the day. This issue of subjection was what I believe Jesus was alluding to when speaking of his equality with God as not being a robbery.
Now, convert all that to what we might suppose is the actuality of what happens when one is born aagain __ that he is of a new creation because of the obedience of the man, Jesus, and we are to know that our testing/proving centers around our taking up the afflictions of Jesus He left behind.
I truly hope this helps someone.
Thank you, CR. I can tell you've thought a lot about this.
The more you lie, the deep you get. The BYZ text doesn't have it.
Luke 9:23 ελεγενG3004 V-IAI-3S δεG1161 CONJ προςG4314 PREP πανταςG3956 A-APM ειG1487 COND τιςG5100 X-NSM θελειG2309 V-PAI-3S οπισωG3694 ADV μουG1473 P-1GS ελθεινG2064 V-2AAN απαρνησασθωG533 V-ADM-3S εαυτονG1438 F-3ASM καιG2532 CONJ αρατωG142 V-AAM-3S τονG3588 T-ASM σταυρονG4716 N-ASM αυτουG846 P-GSM καιG2532 CONJ ακολουθειτωG190 V-PAM-3S μοιG1473 P-1DS
Ημερα is no where to be found there. It is an obvious Roman Catholic lie. It started in the vulgate, entered the Textus Receptus, and then the Orthodox Patriarch's bible.
Your desire to say that it is a daily requirement digs you even deeper into Roman Catholic masochist theology. It was very funny. Thou does realize the other gospels don't say it, does thou?
Has thou had enough?
1. I was not whining. I never whine.
2. Serious jest?? What is that but a swipe to belittle and expect it to be laughed off because the receiving party is supposed to know it was jest? Surely you wrongly 'jest'.
3. How 'bout this for a serious jest ___ bac' off.
Why do I say that Christ did not consider his divinity something to be exploited? Most translations say something on the order of the Son did not consider his divinity something to be grasped, and interpret that to speak to the emptying of himself, perhaps of divine attributes, or of some or all of his divinity.
That said, the key word in unpacking this passage is 'arpagmos. We will see that the kenosis word clarifies itself, once we begin to understand the meaning of arpagmos. This word appears only once in the NT, right here at the heart of this passage. It is not used in the Septuagint and it is rarely used in contemporaneous extra-biblical writings; however, in those contemporaneous writings that we do have, the word consistently conveys a meaning denoting exploitation.
Well, the English cognate of this Greek word is HARPOON... harpagmos is a noun denoting the result of the action of the verb harpazo, which means:
to seize, carry off by force
to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
to snatch out or away
Classic understanding of the passage simply means that His Divinity is inherent in His Person which IS Divine, so that He by no means needs to steal it, or sieze it, or snatch it or carry it off by force... It is not something to be STOLEN... It is His by Nature...
The Kenosis the JW's love to think means emptying Himself of what He had by Nature, simply means His CONDESCENSION of adopting a frame of mind, a phronema, which He desires that man also attain... And that is the phronema of servanthood, humility, lowliness...
Indeed, the next line instructs us to "Be of THIS SAME MIND"... Showing that it is a state of mind, and not a state of power or status...
Arsenios
Well said.
The point is, if I seize upon or eagerly claim for myself that which is already mine, I may indeed be exploiting it. That, at least, is the way the verb is used, when it is used, in the limited writings we have.
Thanks,
What Christ emptied himself of, was not someone else's, but that which was already, eternally his.
Rather than exercise the divine equality that he had shared with the Father, he chose not to exploit, in order that he demonstrate the "mind" of the One who had sent him (see e.g., Joh 5.30). We are to be of that same mind.
The man Jesus did not have to be Divine nor could he be and still die. For one thing, Divinity is not subject to obedience but, "willing" submission. Jesus was obedient.
It appears you are still struggling with acceptance of the hypostatic union (correct me if I'm wrong). Let go of your denial of it and you will know how it is that the human Jesus could be these things while not exercising his divinity over them.
I have no struggle in this. I have no Divine mind. If I did I would know God and have no reason to seek him to know him. Jesus knew Him from His humanity, not any Divinity "imputed" Him. That came later when He was transfigured, manifesting the Word of Himself in that temporary event. I rejoice in this knowledge because it explains God's reasons for creating us that goes way beyond saying, "for His pleasure".
I thought the remainder of what you said was helpful.
That puzzles me. How was it helpful if you believe I am
"struggling"?
BTW, I was editing my post while you were writing your response to the unedited text.
I probably was as well so I hope you will review mine.