ECT Do you see All, Some, None of the Spiritual Gifts in Operation Today?

[TulipBee]

Hi , and since they believe that gifts are for today , WHY then is there some much FRAUD with Languages , if it is really from God !

Tongues will come back during the Great Tribulation and not until then !!

dan p

We have the bible written in almost every language. Tongues cease now because of that. Tongues were used when the new testament wasn't written yet.

What are we going to get from oatmeal's tongues that are not in the bible?

What is oatmeal ' s tongue going to tell us new. Come on now, have him or her toreveal to us something that's not in the bible

 

[godrulz]

A foreign language can be identified as such, as they were at Pentecost in Acts 2. THAT is (was) true tongues.

Today's charismatic "tongues" are faked and delusional unintelligible babbling.

Read Acts 2 carefully in light of I Cor. 12-14.

Acts 2 was not preaching in tongues (Peter did that in his learned language later). It was praise and prayer to God. The ones who spoke received it supernaturally, but they were understood by those in the audience naturally (was not the gift of interpretation). This passage is historical narrative tied into the Christian Pentecost (Acts 1:8; 2:4).

Paul's teaching in/for the church in I Cor. 12-14 is also true tongues with fuller insight. There is a private, personal use for self-edification that is speaking to God with the mind being unfruitful. Some languages sound like clicks and clucks. The hearers thought they were babbling and drunk (in addition to some understanding if they knew the language), but God understands. The other use is the corporate, public use that must be interpreted for group edification. The tongues may sound like babbling, but the interpretation will not if one understands the language (a Chinese person may not understand Punjabi, etc.).

There are counterfeits, fleshly excess, etc. just like in Paul's day. This is not an argument against the dynamic Pentecostal movement of this century that leads to evangelism, holiness, Word centered living, etc.

Cessationism is a lie of the enemy to neuter the church.

 

[godrulz]

Not believing they are for today is not "not believing" they are in the scriptures.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

This points to the eschaton when they will no longer be needed (I Jn. 3:2). The Church Age needs the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gifts for the glory of God and the good of the Church and world. Jesus talked about His authority over demons, sin, sickness, and His presence/power with us until the end of the age. Satan has not reverted to natural means nor has God.

Cessationism is a lie of the enemy to neuter the church. There is no exegetical basis for saying gifts ceased with the closing of the canon (which was long after Paul) or after Paul's ministry. B.B. Warfield, John MacArthur, Bob Enyart, etc. are wrong on this issue.

http://www.amazon.com/Cessation-Charismata-Protestant-Post-Biblical-Miracles-Revised/dp/0981952623

 

[godrulz]

Then why don't you grow up?


1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Paul was not arguing against the gifts because he then goes on to say to earnestly desire them, do not forbid them, etc. He is arguing against the immaturity and pride of the Corinthians, not the power of God.

This is the difference between your simplistic proof texting out of context and sound exegesis considering the whole context.:help:

 

[john w]

etc.

Cessationism is a lie of the enemy to neuter the church.

Scripture cessationism, as you assert, on record, is a lie from your father, the devil, to neuter the church, and prop up your fake, neutered, made up, impotent "saviour."

 

[john w]

This is the difference between your simplistic proof texting out of context and sound exegesis considering the whole context.:help:

Shut up, you clown, with that word for word spam, for the 666th time this year, that you think impresses people, that says absolutely nothing.

 

[godrulz]

Ok, raise my son.



Ok show us.

Paul, etc. did not heal every possible type of issue nor did Jesus. An individual not raising the dead is anecdotal and not an argument against the power and gifts of God in every generation. It is like the skeptic's argument, but illogical:

http://www.gotquestions.org/God-heal-amputees.html

Even Paul left someone sick or said to have wine for stomach. The sovereignty of God and faith factor in, so we should reject hyper-Word of Faith, but not biblical, balanced charismata from the Spirit to the Church/individual as promised.

Demanding to have your son raised instead of making an argument from Scripture shows your lack of understanding of the relational aspect of this and the difference between faith and obeying God or having a tantrum, presumption, testing God.

 

[Nick M]

Paul, etc. did not heal every possible type of issue nor did Jesus. An individual not raising the dead is anecdotal and not an argument against the power and gifts of God in every generation.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

 

[godrulz]

Other than that, their claims are bogus. The claims of raising the dead and drinking deadly poisons (and more) are ridiculous. They fail to rightly divide the Word of God and realize that many of the signs and miracles of the Acts period are NOT for today.

This is hyper-dispensationalism that is not rightly dividing the Word. MAD is a false paradigm that leads to unbelief in the power of God and limits Him to the first century. Scripture and anecdote contradict this nonsense.

 

[godrulz]

Exactly! I watched my best friend go through it all, listened to her cry and wonder why God didnt love her enough, because she had to "fake" tongues to "prove" she was saved, since they claimed she should be able to if saved. Wonder why God wouldn't heal her father - why she couldnt do it ..... and on and one. Slavery is what those charlatans offer.

This sounds like the UPCI sect, not the vast majority of biblical, balanced Pentecostals/charismatics. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater due to bad teaching and experiences is not wrestling with sound doctrine and practice from Scripture.

Charismania does not negate charismata that Paul affirmed.

 

[godrulz]

Did anyone else know that Oatmeal is a slave to The Way, International? I figured he was just a particularly hard-headed run of the mill Oneness pentecostal blowhard, but he's a full-blown Gospel-rejecting cultist. Had I know that, I wouldn't have wasted so much time on him.

I think he rejects the Deity of Christ and the trinity. If so, you are correct. Most evangelical Pentecostals are trinitarian, not cultic.

 

[Nick M]

This is hyper-dispensationalism that is not rightly dividing the Word.

Pentecost is in the middle of a dispensation, not a new one. For it to be new would be hyper-dispensational. Pentecost was for Jacob's trouble, not you airhead.

 

[godrulz]

Pentecost is in the middle of a dispensation, not a new one. For it to be new would be hyper-dispensational. Pentecost was for Jacob's trouble, not you airhead.

OT Pentecost was Jewish, but this was a shadow/type pointing to a greater reality/fulfillment in Christ. The Christian Pentecost is the birth of the NT Church by the power of the Holy Spirit based on the cross of Christ. It predates Paul, the one who would expand the gospel beyond sectarian boundaries. Virtually all Christians recognize this and the burden of proof would be on you who denies it (your arguments are specious and rejected by most for a reason).

 

[oatmeal]

Read Acts 2 carefully in light of I Cor. 12-14.

Acts 2 was not preaching in tongues (Peter did that in his learned language later). It was praise and prayer to God. The ones who spoke received it supernaturally, but they were understood by those in the audience naturally (was not the gift of interpretation). This passage is historical narrative tied into the Christian Pentecost (Acts 1:8; 2:4).

Paul's teaching in/for the church in I Cor. 12-14 is also true tongues with fuller insight. There is a private, personal use for self-edification that is speaking to God with the mind being unfruitful. Some languages sound like clicks and clucks. The hearers thought they were babbling and drunk (in addition to some understanding if they knew the language), but God understands. The other use is the corporate, public use that must be interpreted for group edification. The tongues may sound like babbling, but the interpretation will not if one understands the language (a Chinese person may not understand Punjabi, etc.).

There are counterfeits, fleshly excess, etc. just like in Paul's day. This is not an argument against the dynamic Pentecostal movement of this century that leads to evangelism, holiness, Word centered living, etc.

Cessationism is a lie of the enemy to neuter the church.

Well, you've been around this block before

 

[oatmeal]

This points to the eschaton when they will no longer be needed (I Jn. 3:2). The Church Age needs the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual gifts for the glory of God and the good of the Church and world. Jesus talked about His authority over demons, sin, sickness, and His presence/power with us until the end of the age. Satan has not reverted to natural means nor has God.

Cessationism is a lie of the enemy to neuter the church. There is no exegetical basis for saying gifts ceased with the closing of the canon (which was long after Paul) or after Paul's ministry. B.B. Warfield, John MacArthur, Bob Enyart, etc. are wrong on this issue.

http://www.amazon.com/Cessation-Charismata-Protestant-Post-Biblical-Miracles-Revised/dp/0981952623

Don't let me stop you, you're doing great

 

[oatmeal]

I think he rejects the Deity of Christ and the trinity. If so, you are correct. Most evangelical Pentecostals are trinitarian, not cultic.

That is correct, I reject those doctrines.

Though I find your knowledge of scripture on this subject impressive, it is not because I am a Pentecostal

 

[oatmeal]

Pentecost is in the middle of a dispensation, not a new one. For it to be new would be hyper-dispensational. Pentecost was for Jacob's trouble, not you airhead.

Acts 1:8;2:1-4 make it very clear that something new had just transpired

 

[godrulz]

Being right about spiritual gifts, but wrong about Christology is almost pointless.

 

[TulipBee]

That is correct, I reject those doctrines.

Though I find your knowledge of scripture on this subject impressive, it is not because I am a Pentecostal

Are you church of god? I guess not cause they're trinitarians. What are the other names of non trinitarian Penticoastal denominations? So many new ones springing up. I can't keep up with the growth of man made denominations. The devil got them going fast.

 

[TulipBee]

Don't let me stop you, you're doing great

Keep going, kundalini awakenings isn't a bad thing. It's like a high on drugs