ECT Justification through faith in Christ's blood disproves limited atonement

[Sonnet]

Because you dont believe the Truth, this Truth condemns your false view. Now again, Those whose sins Christ was delivered for or because of, when He rose, He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.


Everyone Christ died for, His Resurrection declared them Justified. Do you believe that ? Yes or No ?

Then you will perhaps explain why Paul preached faith in Christ's resurrection to unbelievers? Please see Romans 10:1-9.

You don't preach such a message if Jesus ONLY resurrected for a select few - for it would be a lie and God, who cannot lie, would not inspire Paul to preach such a gospel.

 

[beloved57]

Then you will perhaps explain why Paul preached faith in Christ's resurrection to unbelievers? Please see Romans 10:1-9.

You don't preach such a message if Jesus ONLY resurrected for a select few - for it would be a lie and God, who cannot lie, would not inspire Paul to preach such a gospel.

The fact is, Rom 4:25 shows that your whole premise for this thread is False.

Those whose sins Christ was delivered for or because of, when He rose, He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.


Everyone Christ died for, His Resurrection declared them Justified. Do you believe that ? Yes or No ?

 

[Sonnet]

The fact is, Rom 4:25 shows that your whole premise for this thread is False.

Those whose sins Christ was delivered for or because of, when He rose, He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.


Everyone Christ died for, His Resurrection declared them Justified. Do you believe that ? Yes or No ?

Nothing there that says that Christ only died for the elect. Please try again.

You ignored my post.

 

[Sonnet]

The fact is, Rom 4:25 shows that your whole premise for this thread is False.

Those whose sins Christ was delivered for or because of, when He rose, He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.


Everyone Christ died for, His Resurrection declared them Justified. Do you believe that ? Yes or No ?

Since anyone can believe your have no argument.

 

[Sonnet]

Everyone Christ died for, His Resurrection declared them Justified. Do you believe that ? Yes or No ?

If that were true then the so called elect would be born justified. They aren't.

 

[beloved57]

If that were true then the so called elect would be born justified. They aren't.

Then you dont believe the Truth ! Its right here before your eyes Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

My goal has been accomplished, and that was to discredit your false premise for this thread, with scripture !

 

[beloved57]

sonnet

If that were true then the so called elect would be born justified. They aren't.

Exactly, they are Justified when they are born sinners, the Resurrection of Christ is proof, as Long as Christ was delivered for their offences, that equates to their Justification before God !

You dont believe that, you dont believe in Christ, all your religious life is in vain, worthless !

 

[Cross Reference]

I think the Calvinist would say that Christ's death accomplished all He set out to do - that is, if there are some He died for that aren't saved, then He failed to do what He came to do.

Neither pray I for these alone {the disciples}, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:9

For unlimited atonement to be true, Jesus would just be praying generally here - for "anyone" who believes on His name as opposed to those specifically He "foreknew".

You are confusing "Redemption" with "Salvation"

 

[Sonnet]

Then you dont believe the Truth ! Its right here before your eyes Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

My goal has been accomplished, and that was to discredit your false premise for this thread, with scripture !

You've not touched on the OP.

 

[beloved57]

You've not touched on the OP.

The opening comment, the heading of the Thread has been proven false that makes the rest of everything you have stated invalid ! Its quite evident from the Biblical data that Christ did not die for all mankind without exception, since all mankind without exception are not Justified before God !

Many of mankind are condemned already and under God's wrath Jn 3:18,36 ! They cannot possible be any for whom God declares Justified by Christ's Resurrection Rom 4:25 !

 

[beloved57]

You are confusing "Redemption" with "Salvation"

They are the same in True Religion, what religion are you ?

 

[Sonnet]

The opening comment, the heading of the Thread has been proven false that makes the rest of everything you have stated invalid ! Its quite evident from the Biblical data that Christ did not die for all mankind without exception, since all mankind without exception are not Justified before God !

Many of mankind are condemned already and under God's wrath Jn 3:18,36 ! They cannot possible be any for whom God declares Justified by Christ's Resurrection Rom 4:25 !

You have not touched on the OP. You went to other scriptures that said nothing about limited atonement.

 

[Sonnet]

sonnet



Exactly, they are Justified when they are born sinners, the Resurrection of Christ is proof, as Long as Christ was delivered for their offences, that equates to their Justification before God !

You dont believe that, you dont believe in Christ, all your religious life is in vain, worthless !

No, they are born dead in their sins just like all man. I'm sure you know the scripture.

 

[beloved57]

No, they are born dead in their sins just like all man. I'm sure you know the scripture.

Yeah they are born in sin, but Justified before God Rom 4:25 !

 

[nikolai_42]

The election of Grace is a reference to those that exercised faith - in other words, the election is not based on works.

So do you believe that verse should more accurately read :

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of faith.
Romans 11:5 (modified)

Faith is the means, but not the basis - at least according to Paul's letter to the Ephesians :

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

Grace provides the basis upon which someone is justified. Faith provides the means by which that justification is made real and active. Faith, as I see the scripture saying, cannot precede grace - otherwise grace is no longer grace. What would we think if spiritual gifts were given based on merit (in any sense of the word)? One would read this verse very differently :

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Romans 12:6

Again, we see grace as the foundation for the giving of the gifts and faith as the means by which those gifts are applied. Otherwise, one might as well take the Roman Catholic definition of grace which relies on merit.

 

[nikolai_42]

You are confusing "Redemption" with "Salvation"

You don't believe Jacob was "saved" (in some sense) when he became Israel?

 

[Cross Reference]

You don't believe Jacob was "saved" (in some sense) when he became Israel?

Sure but, in promise form __ and still is, regardless of the cross. Redemption was not in promise form and dependent upon ones choice in the matter.

 

[nikolai_42]

Sure but, in promise form __ and still is, regardless of the cross. Redemption was not in promise form and dependent upon ones choice in the matter.

Not quite sure I follow what you mean. Are you saying that salvation is (and, of course, was) only a promise to be realized sometime in the future whereas redemption is a one time thing that happens (happened) at a single moment in the past (i.e. for Jacob and all those now in Christ)?

And do you mean that redemption is dependent upon one's choice (but contrasted with salvation, which, presumably, you are saying is not)?

 

[Sonnet]

So do you believe that verse should more accurately read :

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of faith.
Romans 11:5 (modified)

Faith is the means, but not the basis - at least according to Paul's letter to the Ephesians :

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

Grace provides the basis upon which someone is justified. Faith provides the means by which that justification is made real and active. Faith, as I see the scripture saying, cannot precede grace - otherwise grace is no longer grace. What would we think if spiritual gifts were given based on merit (in any sense of the word)? One would read this verse very differently :

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Romans 12:6

Again, we see grace as the foundation for the giving of the gifts and faith as the means by which those gifts are applied. Otherwise, one might as well take the Roman Catholic definition of grace which relies on merit.

You still appear to be confusing faith and works.

Romans 4:1-5
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Please respond to this first (it is, after all, the essence of the thread):
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4113673&postcount=55

 

[Cross Reference]

Not quite sure I follow what you mean. Are you saying that salvation is (and, of course, was) only a promise to be realized sometime in the future whereas redemption is a one time thing that happens (happened) at a single moment in the past (i.e. for Jacob and all those now in Christ)?

And do you mean that redemption is dependent upon one's choice (but contrasted with salvation, which, presumably, you are saying is not)?

Apparently you are having a problem with accepting the notion that a person might not care if he has been redeemed in which case he would not be. Am I correct about that?