No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

JudgeRightly

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Already explained my point!

Constantly restating your position is not "explaining your point."

Man naturally can not come to Christ

DUH, but he CAN after the Father calls him, per John 6:44, 65.

which means he cant naturally believe in Him Jn 6:44,65

He can after the Father calls him, as per the above verses.
 

oatmeal

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Those being drawn are the Elect of God/The Sheep, they have been made alive Spiritually, drawing implies that. So again man cannot come to Christ which means he cannot believe in Christ, that fact shows how false the notion of mans freewill is in Salvation, its a Myth.
God is smart enough to know who will believe. Ie, God chooses those who believe,
 

beloved57

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Constantly restating your position is not "explaining your point."



DUH, but he CAN after the Father calls him, per John 6:44, 65.



He can after the Father calls him, as per the above verses.
Already explained, man naturally cant come to Christ. Jn 6:44 65 , so if a when he does come to Christ its by Divine Intervention and hes no longer a natural man, He s a Spiritually alive man.
 

beloved57

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God is smart enough to know who will believe. Ie, God chooses those who believe,
Those who believe had been chosen/ ordained to eternal life previously by God Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
 

JudgeRightly

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Already explained,

You haven't explained anything.

man naturally cant come to Christ.

Man can come to Christ after the Father calls him.

Can you at least acknowledge that point, B57?

Jn 6:44 65

You should stop citing those verses since you don't believe what they say anyways.

so if a[nd] when he does come to Christ its by Divine Intervention and hes no longer a natural man, He s a Spiritually alive man.

Chapter verse that says that "divine intervention" guarantees that he is no longer a natural man.

Chapter verse that says when the Father calls someone, it changes them into a "spiritually alive man."
 

beloved57

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You haven't explained anything.



Man can come to Christ after the Father calls him.

Can you at least acknowledge that point, B57?



You should stop citing those verses since you don't believe what they say anyways.



Chapter verse that says that "divine intervention" guarantees that he is no longer a natural man.

Chapter verse that says when the Father calls someone, it changes them into a "spiritually alive man."
Sure I have explained it, you ignored it !
 

JudgeRightly

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Sure I have explained it, you ignored it !

I have ignored nothing that you have said.

Yet here you are, ignoring my entire points, to the point where you're even denying what the scripture plainly says.

Hypocrite, first cast out the beam from your own eye, so that you may see clearly to remove the mote from your brother's eye.

Man can come to Christ after the Father calls him.

Can you at least acknowledge that point, B57?
 

beloved57

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I have ignored nothing that you have said.

Yet here you are, ignoring my entire points, to the point where you're even denying what the scripture plainly says.

Hypocrite, first cast out the beam from your own eye, so that you may see clearly to remove the mote from your brother's eye.

Man can come to Christ after the Father calls him.

Can you at least acknowledge that point, B57?
I acknowledge that no man naturally can come to Christ which means he cant believe in Christ It takes a Sovereign Work of God.
 

JudgeRightly

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I acknowledge that no man naturally can come to Christ which means he cant believe in Christ It takes a Sovereign Work of God.

Do you acknowledge that a man can come to Christ AFTER the Father calls him, as per John 6:44, 65?
 

beloved57

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Do you acknowledge that a man can come to Christ AFTER the Father calls him, as per John 6:44, 65?
Yeah because hes a new creature, no more a natural man, coming by the power of God. Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
 

Hilltrot

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Yeah because hes a new creature, no more a natural man, coming by the power of God. Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I personally don't believe in free-will because it is nowhere in the Bible.

What is your definition of free-will?
 

beloved57

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I personally don't believe in free-will because it is nowhere in the Bible.

What is your definition of free-will?
Its twofold, the natural mans will isnt free from the slavery/servitude of sin/unbelief and mans will isnt free from the Sovereign control of God.

What about you ?
 

Hilltrot

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Its twofold, the natural mans will isnt free from the slavery/servitude of sin/unbelief and mans will isnt free from the Sovereign control of God.

What about you ?
I don't have a definition for free-will. I try not to use made-up words.

You didn't define what free-will was yourself. Is it because you don't have a definition for it? If so, why do you keep on using the word? And why are you so opposed to something you can't define?
 

beloved57

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I don't have a definition for free-will. I try not to use made-up words.

You didn't define what free-will was yourself. Is it because you don't have a definition for it? If so, why do you keep on using the word? And why are you so opposed to something you can't define?
Man Im through with this !
 

JudgeRightly

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Yeah because hes a new creature, no more a natural man, coming by the power of God.

Chapter verse that says that the Father's calling of someone changes them into a new creature.

Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

This verse is talking about AFTER someone becomes a believer, how God works through them. It is not talking about the point of salvation.
 

JudgeRightly

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Its twofold, the natural mans will isnt free from the slavery/servitude of sin/unbelief and mans will isnt free from the Sovereign control of God.

What about you ?

How does being a slave of sin mean someone, after being called by the Father, cannot recognize that he IS a slave of sin and call out to God?
 

beloved57

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Chapter verse that says that the Father's calling of someone changes them into a new creature.



This verse is talking about AFTER someone becomes a believer, how God works through them. It is not talking about the point of salvation.
I never said that, the drawing of the Father is the Power of God in the New Birth. Its the Work of the Spirit. The natural man cant come to Christ Jn 6:44,65 Phil 2:13 is specifying how one became a believer, its by Gods working in them to will and to do of Gods good pleasure.

The word draw denotes a inward power impelling helkō:

metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

In the Day of Gods Power the peole are made willing Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

God causes men to approach Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
 

JudgeRightly

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I never said that,

YOU SAID:

if a when he does come to Christ its by Divine Intervention and hes no longer a natural man, He s a Spiritually alive man.

That's a change from "natural man" to "spiritually alive man" which you say is caused by the drawing:

When they are drawn, they are new creatures.

So don't lie, B57.

Now, chapter verse that says that the Father's calling (aka "drawing") of someone changes them into a new creature.

the drawing of the Father is the Power of God in the New Birth. Its the Work of the Spirit.

Show chapter verse where that causes one to become spiritually alive.

The natural man cant come to Christ Jn 6:44,65

He can after the Father calls/draws him, John 6:44, 65.

Phil 2:13 is specifying how one became a believer,

No, it's not.

It's talking about after someone is a believer.

its by Gods working in them to will and to do of Gods good pleasure.

AGAIN, it's talking about AFTER someone is saved.

The word draw denotes a inward power impelling helkō:

metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Drawing/impelling someone doesn't mean compelled to follow.

In the Day of Gods Power the people are made willing Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

The verse does not say that people will be "made willing."

Try again.

God causes men to approach Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Not by compelling them, but by drawing them.

Not a guarantee that they will.

Also, this is speaking of people who already follow God, not of unbelievers.
 
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