ECT Open Rebuke is Better...and needed, here

[Cross Reference]

Do you deny Paul taught Election? do you deny that God separated him from his mother's womb to do His will?

The proof is in the pudding...God's plan worked.

Yeah but, you have screwed it up with your inaccuracies.

 

[Nimrod]

I can't agree with your "In other words".....especially "His faith in us." His being the author and finisher of faith doesn't mean He has gifted us with faith to believe. Believing is not a work.

Well then please give us the true meaning of 'author' of our faith in Hebrews 12:2.

A work is mental or physical. Believing is an action done by man. So, yes, it is a work. Since you don't think so, what is the biblical definition of work?

 

[glorydaz]

Well then please give us the true meaning of 'author' of our faith in Hebrews 12:2.

I see it as a continuation of chapter 11, with Jesus being the preeminent example of faith....the first and last...the Alpha and Omega. If you pay attention to what the author is talking about, it's how Jesus "endured the cross", "despising the shame", etc. He is the captain we follow...as the same word is used elsewhere.

A work is mental or physical. Believing is an action done by man. So, yes, it is a work. Since you don't think so, what is the biblical definition of work?

Self-effort. Believing isn't self-effort. It's embracing the Truth....being persuaded.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you deny Paul taught Election? do you deny that God separated him from his mother's womb to do His will?

The proof is in the pudding...God's plan worked.

Yes, God's plan worked. He planned a foundation of prophets and apostles. Paul was one of those.

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph. 1:8-9
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph. 1:11-13
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

 

[glorydaz]

Don't be STUPID these were all men who God dealt with. YOU are American you do not need to go back thousands of years like we do in Europe before the gospel arrived on our shores when the religious folks thought the way to please God was by burning children a living sacrifice. It was pitch black.

You have to only go back just a couple of hundred years to what America was like before the Europeans arrived. Look at the native Americans....was there a glimmer of light? Oh I know the earthists have re-written it all, just as they say the Europeans were peaceful farmers, yet under our feet are the flint arrowheads and axes and spears and bludgeons which tell the truth.

People in Africa up until very recently were the same...but the Gospel came. Man in his natural state does not have a glitchen of an idea of what God is like. And it is not me who says so.

Paul knew there was NO good thing in him that is in his flesh. The bible says we have ALL turned to our own ways. Isaiah said there is NONE that doeth good , no not one.


....except the likes of glorydaz, somehow in YOU was some good thing that is in your flesh. Well I don't think so. I think you stank, as I did.

But Jesus ha mercy, He had plans for me, He had his plan before I was born, before I knew to say "Mamma, Dadda" He made His plan for me in eternity.

Stupid? I'm not so stupid as to think all men are evil just because there are some verses that talk about evil men. I have a Bible. I can read for myself....from the beginning with Abel on down through time. God did not create EVIL men....they turn evil on their own, and not all men are evil. They do, however, live in a corrupt world and end up sinning. Does sin make them evil? If it did, David would not have been a man after God's own heart, and Abraham would not have been a friend of God, and Job would not have been called righteous. No. You can shout it from the rooftops, but you would be wrong. There have always been people who seek after God. The problem is finding Him....which is why our Lord came and dwelt among us.

Gen. 4:26
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.​

You and your ilk may think I "stank" and all men stink, but God doesn't see it that way. What stinks is your claim that man has not the ability to turn to God....that's what stinks. :nono:

 

[john w]

John...

Perhaps I have totally misunderstood Lon, but it seems you are misrepresenting what he said.

No, it seems that you missed it, the part of his argument that I was addressing, and my contention/dispute with it...

"Who is in Christ?
Read Romans 10:11 and get it right. If someone believes they can lose their salvation, but believes the above, guess what? You are wrong, they aren't wolves. They are in the BoC. You 'ed"-Lon.


And see Lon's gracious remarks, here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102550

 

[Totton Linnet]

but
we are not peter
we are not paul
we are not constantine

what were you elected to do?

I'm not sure what Constantine is doing there. I am chosen and ordained that I might go forth and bear much fruit and that my might be complete.


My joy is complete. It is not what we are chosen to do so much as what we are chosen to be. A tree bears fruit according to it's kind.

It is not me who said a good tree bears good fruit, an evil tree bears evil fruit. There are folks who insist that an evil tree can be made to bear good fruit.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yes, God's plan worked. He planned a foundation of prophets and apostles. Paul was one of those.

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph. 1:8-9
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph. 1:11-13
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

There is not a scrap about man's freewill here...it is all about God's will.

See you pan Jason but you preachin the very same stuff, how that your trusting, your faith, your seeking was what God rewarded you for when He saved you.

He dandles the child and you pan him but then turn yourself to hug the parent.

Lawkeeping, works salvation, conditional salvation all comes from this doctrine that YOU sought God when God says NObody sought Him, YOU trusted Him, You made the virtuous decision, it is all you.

 

[Nick M]

God or Nick?

I am indwelt by his Spirit and have his mind. You have a demon.

 

[glorydaz]

There is not a scrap about man's freewill here...it is all about God's will.

See you pan Jason but you preachin the very same stuff, how that your trusting, your faith, your seeking was what God rewarded you for when He saved you.

He dandles the child and you pan him but then turn yourself to hug the parent.

Lawkeeping, works salvation, conditional salvation all comes from this doctrine that YOU sought God when God says NObody sought Him, YOU trusted Him, You made the virtuous decision, it is all you.

No, it's not all about me. It's all about salvation being a GIFT that men must receive....it isn't shoved down the throats of some while others get kicked to the curb. You want people to think they are unable to turn to God...that God left them without the ability to do so. That's a sad state of affairs. :nono:

Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:​

 

[Totton Linnet]

No, it's not all about me. It's all about salvation being a GIFT that men must receive....it isn't shoved down the throats of some while others get kicked to the curb. You want people to think they are unable to turn to God...that God left them without the ability to do so. That's a sad state of affairs. :nono:

Jeremiah 29:13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:​

*
Expound these words.

If God were your Father ye would love Me for I proceeded and came from God, neither came I of Myself but He sent Me.

Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.

Ye are of your father the devil.....

Do you deny that Paul was separated from his mother's womb to do God' will? are you going to stupidly say that God shoved it down his throat...do you see how stupid a thing to say that was?

God didn't kick anybody into the curb, it's a stupid thing to say, He created man and placed him a garden of great beauty and abundance, but the devil came and told him he had freewill, that he could disobey God, not only would he not die but he himself would be God.

That's what the deception is, that man is like God with the ability to choose good and evil....that's what you believe, the deception.

Man rebelled against God, man is God's enemy, God chucked him out where he became a servant to Satan...so much for freewill.

Freewill is bondage to Satan.

 

[oatmeal]

Do Not return evil for evil, but overcome evil with good

and

Learn to discern rightly (correctly).

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed.

Who is in Christ?
Read Romans 10:11 and get it right. If someone believes they can lose their salvation, but believes the above, guess what? You are wrong, they aren't wolves. They are in the BoC. You :loser:'ed


Stop accusing, and correct the wicked behavior (as I am doing here). Don't think the worst, hope for the best, that they come 'round to their Savior in adoration. The divisive one and disobedient who is harming the local body, needs to be handled by the local body. Some on TOL do not have a home church - may be these ones who are being disciplined by their church, but we are not a local body on TOL. I'm not sure how we are supposed to be dealing with those on the internet. The goal is for them to repent.

Read Romans 10:11 and get it right. If someone doesn't agree with you that all your sins are covered in the blood of Christ, guess what? They are simply wrong, not outside the faith. Being 'wrong' does not equate 'Not saved' Ever (may be an indication but is disassociative.). Romans 10:11 makes that point, not MAD, not Calvinism, not even arianism. We have a LOT of fruit inspectors on TOL. You CANNOT inspect Romans 10:11 other than people who deny Him and are vocal about it. Shut your ignorant mouths.

You or your neighbor cannot determine BoC who's who unless they deny Him - deny the essential gospel! Paul and Peter argued doctrine. They did not condemn one another to hell whether one was MAD or another Arminian or even, in this case, Judaising, which really was a problem with the essential gospel for gentiles. Peter wasn't going to hell or a child of satan for it! He was just wrong, fine, oppose him, but quite the ridiculous lying accusation. Peter was of Christ.
Those confused by fruit? Yes, scripture can lead to that confusion. Where is any verse that says "By their doctrine, you will know them????" (doesn't exist).
John 4:22 but verse 23 ends that dispute.

Knock off the petty, stupid, mindless, scriptureless, ignorant, backbiting!
Be about His business and leave inane rants back on the gradeschool yard!

We have WAY more important tasks than trying to decide who is who in the BoC which is frankly, none (nadda) of your business other than pointing all men to Christ and lifting up Christ that all men will come to Him. John 12:32 Lift Him up!

Smack of truth? Not hardly. Go ahead and debate theologies, but knock of the accusations. Assert what is true, knock of inaccuracies and lies from the pit. You don't get to tell someone they are going to hell. You can merely assess a current path that is broad and leads to destruction. Say so, don't tell lies. No "you are going to hell" is true without MAJOR qualifications: "...if you persist on this path...If you do not put your trust in Christ...if you continue to deny Him." <-- All scriptures someone can show clearly and easily. If scripture doesn't say it, you overstepped truth and started lying. For what? A doctrine? That's all you, no Him anywhere in it. Stop it. Repent. Romans 12:14&20 1 Thessalonians 5:15 Luke 6:37 2 Corinthians 7:11 These are all commands. Show me 1(one) verse that says to do otherwise ( :nono: doesn't exist, just examples that weak minded follow thinking to excuse poor behavior that was NOT present when Paul, Jesus, or John the Baptist used them :nono: ).Rather Romans 2 & 14:4
"But Jesus, Paul, and John the Baptist called people harsh names!?"
Show me the scripture that tells 'you' to go out and do likewise :nono:
EVERY instance was aimed at rebuke AND evangelism, not 'defense.' Every last one of them was said, not because their feelings were hurt or they were just plain onery. It was said because of care and concern even for those in error.

The Pharisees: "Do what they say, not what they do."Matthew 23:3 And John 4:22
Among them, Nicodemus was likely saved so they are not the scapegoat for every wack fringe accusation.
Hosea 4:6 2 Timothy 2:23 Titus 3:9
God does not answer the prayers of "child of Satan!" Matthew 15:26 Proverbs 15:29
1 Peter 3:12 John 9:31 James 5:16 Mark 3:27 Matthew 12:28 & 29 Mark 9:39
So stop your insane ignorant mouths. You are being petty, stupid, scripturally ignorant, fleshly, and divisive(I pray you accusers of the BoC will have contemplated carefully instead of hoof and mouth syndrome with hitting your reply button to your own ignorant demise).

The Scriptures, to meditate upon and give prayerful contemplation:

Spoiler

Scriptures to study and meditate
2Ti 2:21 Therefore if anyone purges himself from these, he shall be a vessel to honor, sanctified and useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
2Ti 2:22 But flee youthful lusts, and follow righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 But avoid foolish and unlearned questions, knowing that they give birth to strifes.
2Ti 2:24 But the servant of the Lord must not strive, but to be gentle to all, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in meekness instructing those who oppose, if perhaps God will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they awake out of the snare of the Devil, having been taken captive by him, so as to do the will of that one

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed.
Luke 6:44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Rom 12:13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
Rom 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be conceited.
Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head."
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
1Th 5:15 See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone
Luk 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.
Luk 6:37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
Rom 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.
Rom 2:2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who do such things.
Rom 2:3 Do you suppose, O man--you who judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself--that you will escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
Rom 2:6 He will render to each one according to his works:
Rom 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
Rom 2:8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Rom 2:9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
Rom 2:10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For God shows no partiality.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Pharisees knew and taught the truth:
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Mat 23:2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat,
Mat 23:3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you--but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge...

2Ti 2:23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
Tit 3:8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tit 3:10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,
Tit 3:11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Submitted in our Christ, that all men and women should walk in Him and with Him and bring Him alone, glory honor and power, not our pet doctrines or those who crowd with us.

We are to love without favoritism and not mistreat these others. There is no excuse for returning evil for evil. This is a command.
Romans 12:17&21
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Interesting post. I had not noticed this particular thread of yours.

Your underlying theme is good

Only scripture is qualified to be the critic of men. Hebrews 4:12

Overcome evil with good, the word of God is good