ECT Open Rebuke is Better...and needed, here

[Totton Linnet]

Nonsense. I preach the Gospel to the lost. You act like there are human beings that aren't worth your time. I'm surprised by that.





Yeah, I certainly agree with that. Truth be told, it's always been that way.

Nay I am speaking defensively, you are the one who says Paul's doctrine of election is false gospel and the gospel of man's "freewill" is the true gospel even though the bible says men are in bondage.

The bible say you He quickened while you were dead in trespasses and sins....you say He came and curtsied and persuaded and aksed nicely.

God is so polite He must be an Englishman.

Gotta go to bed...goodnight everyone God bless.

 

[glorydaz]

*
The problem with all this is there is not a scrap of scripture in it, it is all just nice ol' human wisdom.

The scripture is WHILE we were yet enemies Christ died for the ungodly....nobody was seeking, nobody was reaching out, they had every one turned to his own way.

God did it all by Himself and as far as I am concerned He will have all the glory.

You claim man has an excuse then, don't you?

How can you possibly, with a straight face, claim no one seeks after God? You didn't? He just reached down and grabbed you up without you even knowing it? :doh:

Here's why you're wrong, Tottie. You quote verses about fools who claim there is no God and workers of iniquity. You ignore the verses that speak of those who search for God and do good. Look at Job. Look at Abraham. Look at Moses. Look at Abel. Look..... God is clearly seen and understood by men. SOME men aren't thankful and become vain. NOT ALL...which is why men are without excuse. Your belief gives them an excuse. I don't know why you can't see this. :sigh:

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.​

 

[glorydaz]

You see the Jews in the bible, they were bad enough...do you know what the national religion of Britain was back then? it was burning children as sacrifices to the devil. that was the religious folk....there was not so much as a spark of light before the gospel came and with the gospel came God's sovereign almighty power to conquer man with love.

Conquer.

Wrong. Job, Isaiah, Moses, David, Noah.....

 

[glorydaz]

Nay I am speaking defensively, you are the one who says Paul's doctrine of election is false gospel and the gospel of man's "freewill" is the true gospel even though the bible says men are in bondage.

The bible say you He quickened while you were dead in trespasses and sins....you say He came and curtsied and persuaded and aksed nicely.

God is so polite He must be an Englishman.

Gotta go to bed...goodnight everyone God bless.

Yeah, you'd better go to bed. You're getting ridiculous.

"Paul's doctrine of election." :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

Just how many times do you think a person needs to be shown? Do you think Nang, Lon, AMR and others have aptitude problems?

I don't know, Nick. I've been saved for over forty years and I'm still learning new things. What I thought was true gets clarified, and I realize it was just the tip of the iceberg I was seeing before.

I have things, like the "bride of Christ" for instance, that was grilled into my head for many years. It's hard to let go of some things....the Holy Spirit has to hit me over the head (it seems like) before I actually get it. Sometimes, unfortunately, pride keeps us from considering what another points out, and we remain stuck for years on something that seems so clear later on. :idunno:

Heck, when I first came on this site, I almost left because of Sozo (and you), but I swallowed my pride (eventually) and listened. Suddenly things that had no clear answer before became clear. Ah, I see (said the blind man). I know for a fact I was saved back in 1970 and the Lord has been my rock throughout the years....but I'm still a work in progress and I'll still be growing when He comes to take me home.

 

[Nimrod]

I suppose you throw out every single verse that speaks of our faith IN HIM? There is the faith of Jesus Christ and our faith in Christ. Just like reconciliation, TWO are required. We live by HIS faith, and we access the Grace of God by our faith.

Hebrews 12:2
" looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith,"

Jesus is the founder of 'our faith'. In other words, it came from Him. It is His faith in us.

How do you interpret Hebrews 12:2?

A reasoning, thinking man with a will to choose to follow your God or reject Him.

Works salvation. Man must do (fill in the blank) for salvation.

 

[john w]

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed.

Who is in Christ?
Read Romans 10:11 and get it right. If someone believes they can lose their salvation, but believes the above, guess what? You are wrong, they aren't wolves. They are in the BoC. You :loser:'ed

False dichotomy. Part of the "foundation" of the gospel of Christ is the eternal security of the believer, and you asserting, "Well, as long as they believe Rom 10:9-11 KJV, even if they say , you can lose it,' what's the prob?Can't we all get along?," is akin to asserting:

Believe, but, you gotta keep on believing, and, if you don't, you can be put on trial again, right after you become:

-undead
-unburied
-uncircumcised
-unjustified
-unreconciled
-unsealed
-unadopted

And that is not "good news"-that is bad news.

Implicit in this "you can lose it," is a presuppostion that there is more to it than just believing,on, relying on, having faith in the dbr, as the sole solution to the sin/sins problem.

And I argue, and will continue to argue, that those who reject the eternal security of the believer, are clueless as to what happened 2000+ years ago, and why.

"If someone believes they can lose their salvation, but believes the above, guess what? You are wrong, they aren't wolves."-Lon

By that "argument,"....


If someone believes they can work their way up to them big, pearly gates, but believes the above, guess what? You are wrong, they aren't wolves.


See how that works, Lon?



And, I also argue, that this post should be nominated for "MOAP"(Mother Of All Posts), and "POTY("Post Of the Year.")

 

[john w]

Where is any verse that says "By their doctrine, you will know them????" (doesn't exist).

False "argument," and dichotomy,as that verse, you are referencing, is not written specifically to you.

"These are all commands.....Be about His business and leave inane rants back on the gradeschool yard!"-Lon




And these are commands from Paul, your apostle, about the importance of doctrine, sound doctrine, "teaching," which you, in a "gradeschool" manner, craftily dismiss, with a sound byte that seems impressive, but contradicts scripture:



“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. … Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them… As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;…. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained… Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine… Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee…. Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine… If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;... But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,.. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:… Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;.. Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers…. But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:… In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,… Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.”-Romans 6:17 KJV, Romans 16:17 KJV, 1 Timothy 1:3 KJV, 1 Timothy 1: 10 KJV, 1 Timothy 4:6 KJV, 1 Timothy 4:13 KJV. 1 Timothy 4:16 KJV, 1 Timothy 5:17 KJV. 1 Timothy 6:3 KJV, 2 Tim. 3:10 KJV, 2 Tim. 3:16 KJV, 2 Tim. 4:2-3 KJV, Titus 1:9 KJV, Titus 2:1 KJV, Titus 2:7 KJV, Titus 2:10 KJV


How do we convey the doctrine, teaching, of the gospel of Christ, Lon? Rhetorical q. I assume, then, that you will no longer teach, on TOL, Lon? Or, are you just going to show off some "fruit?" An atheist can do that...

"Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers"

 

[glorydaz]

Hebrews 12:2
" looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith,"

Jesus is the founder of 'our faith'. In other words, it came from Him. It is His faith in us.
How do you interpret Hebrews 12:2?



Works salvation. Man must do (fill in the blank) for salvation.

I can't agree with your "In other words".....especially "His faith in us." His being the author and finisher of faith doesn't mean He has gifted us with faith to believe. Believing is not a work.

 

[Lon]

False dichotomy. Part of the "foundation" of the gospel of Christ is the eternal security of the believer, and you asserting, "Well, as long as they believe Rom 10:9-11 KJV, even if they say , you can lose it,' what's the prob?Can't we all get along?," is akin to asserting:

Believe, but, you gotta keep on believing, and, if you don't, you can be put on trial again, right after you become:

-undead
-unburied
-uncircumcised
-unjustified
-unreconciled
-unsealed
-unadopted

And that is not "good news"-that is bad news.

Implicit in this "you can lose it," is a presuppostion that there is more to it than just believing,on, relying on, having faith in the dbr, as the sole solution to the sin/sins problem.

And I argue, and will continue to argue, that those who reject the eternal security of the believer, are clueless as to what happened 2000+ years ago, and why.

"If someone believes they can lose their salvation, but believes the above, guess what? You are wrong, they aren't wolves."-Lon

By that "argument,"....


If someone believes they can work their way up to them big, pearly gates, but believes the above, guess what? You are wrong, they aren't wolves.


See how that works, Lon?



And, I also argue, that this post should be nominated for "MOAP"(Mother Of All Posts), and "POTY("Post Of the Year.")

Yes, but Paul opposed Peter, he didn't condemn him to hell. Peter was trying to make these gentiles Judaised. Galatians is talking about that too, but it is important to note one thing: Peter was in the BoC. He was wrong yet retained his Lord Jesus Christ. We need to be as careful and discerning. You and I, I believe, hold the same essential gospel. Yes, oppose me if I'm being stupid. I do, however, see a point when someone will not be corrected but you correct me and I take those corrections if I'm wrong/ignorant. Most of them aren't doctrinal, but thread posts that I'm trying to digest correctly and I appreciate all your help in doing so.
I've learned to love and appreciate you.

 

[6days]

False dichotomy. Part of the "foundation" of the gospel of Christ is the eternal security of the believer, and you asserting, "Well, as long as they believe Rom 10:9-11 KJV, even if they say , you can lose it,' what's the prob?Can't we all get along?," is akin to asserting.....

John...
Perhaps I have totally misunderstood Lon, but it seems you are misrepresenting what he said.
I thought the point was that the nasty and vicious comments we sometimes see in ToL is not Christ like?
I realize Christ called phony religious people out sometimes..... but it seems to me that Jesus may have had the gift of discernment, which some of us lack.
What I notice... And, you can correct me on this... But I see people who seem like sincere followers of Jesus, who disagree on theological points, hating each other... calling each other non Christian. A person can be totally wrong on matters of theology but still understand they are a sinner saved by grace, because of what Jesus did at Calvary.

``Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."

 

[JosephR]

John...

Perhaps I have totally misunderstood Lon, but it seems you are misrepresenting what he said.

I thought the point was that the nasty and vicious comments we sometimes see in ToL is not Christ like?

I realize Christ called phony religious people out sometimes..... but it seems to me that Jesus may have had the gift of discernment, which some of us lack.

What I notice... And, you can correct me on this... But I see people who seem like sincere followers of Jesus, who disagree on theological points, hating each other... calling each other non Christian. A person can be totally wrong on matters of theology but still understand they are a sinner saved by grace, because of what Jesus did at Calvary.



``Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."

I have tried to say this exact thing before and could not word it like this, thanks 6 days , I agree with you.


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Lon]

"Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers"

POTD

 

[Lazy afternoon]

How can you possibly, with a straight face, claim no one seeks after God? You didn't? He just reached down and grabbed you up without you even knowing it? :doh:

Babies have no part in their being conceived or bought to birth.

Here's why you're wrong, Tottie. You quote verses about fools who claim there is no God and workers of iniquity. You ignore the verses that speak of those who search for God and do good. Look at Job. Look at Abraham. Look at Moses. Look at Abel. Look..... God is clearly seen and understood by men. SOME men aren't thankful and become vain. NOT ALL...which is why men are without excuse. Your belief gives them an excuse. I don't know why you can't see this. :sigh:

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.​

These verses refer to men who knew God.

OSAS is therefore a perversion of the truth.

LA

 

[Totton Linnet]

Wrong. Job, Isaiah, Moses, David, Noah.....

Don't be STUPID these were all men who God dealt with. YOU are American you do not need to go back thousands of years like we do in Europe before the gospel arrived on our shores when the religious folks thought the way to please God was by burning children a living sacrifice. It was pitch black.

You have to only go back just a couple of hundred years to what America was like before the Europeans arrived. Look at the native Americans....was there a glimmer of light? Oh I know the earthists have re-written it all, just as they say the Europeans were peaceful farmers, yet under our feet are the flint arrowheads and axes and spears and bludgeons which tell the truth.

People in Africa up until very recently were the same...but the Gospel came. Man in his natural state does not have a glitchen of an idea of what God is like. And it is not me who says so.

Paul knew there was NO good thing in him that is in his flesh. The bible says we have ALL turned to our own ways. Isaiah said there is NONE that doeth good , no not one.


....except the likes of glorydaz, somehow in YOU was some good thing that is in your flesh. Well I don't think so. I think you stank, as I did.

But Jesus ha mercy, He had plans for me, He had his plan before I was born, before I knew to say "Mamma, Dadda" He made His plan for me in eternity.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yeah, you'd better go to bed. You're getting ridiculous.

"Paul's doctrine of election." :chuckle:

Do you deny Paul taught Election? do you deny that God separated him from his mother's womb to do His will?

The proof is in the pudding...God's plan worked.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yes, but Paul opposed Peter, he didn't condemn him to hell. Peter was trying to make these gentiles Judaised. Galatians is talking about that too, but it is important to note one thing: Peter was in the BoC. He was wrong yet retained his Lord Jesus Christ. We need to be as careful and discerning. You and I, I believe, hold the same essential gospel. Yes, oppose me if I'm being stupid. I do, however, see a point when someone will not be corrected but you correct me and I take those corrections if I'm wrong/ignorant. Most of them aren't doctrinal, but thread posts that I'm trying to digest correctly and I appreciate all your help in doing so.
I've learned to love and appreciate you.

john w is loved and appreciated by many of us...but he cain't handle that.

 

[Totton Linnet]

John...
Perhaps I have totally misunderstood Lon, but it seems you are misrepresenting what he said.
I thought the point was that the nasty and vicious comments we sometimes see in ToL is not Christ like?
I realize Christ called phony religious people out sometimes..... but it seems to me that Jesus may have had the gift of discernment, which some of us lack.
What I notice... And, you can correct me on this... But I see people who seem like sincere followers of Jesus, who disagree on theological points, hating each other... calling each other non Christian. A person can be totally wrong on matters of theology but still understand they are a sinner saved by grace, because of what Jesus did at Calvary.

``Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."

Totally.

 

[chrysostom]

Do you deny Paul taught Election? do you deny that God separated him from his mother's womb to do His will?

The proof is in the pudding...God's plan worked.

but
we are not peter
we are not paul
we are not constantine

what were you elected to do?

 

[Cross Reference]

I have never proclaimed anything other than salvation that comes by the grace of God.

In a very distorted way that doesn't make any sense.

It is not "unjust" for God to sovereignly determine who He will save and who He will not.

Show where God arbitrarily ever condemned anyone??

That is only your opinion, but it is not biblical in the slightest degree.

And yours isn't? ___ and solely upon another opinion is it based.

Why?

Because it is a false gospel!

How can death produce life?

Ever read in the "word of God" about dying to yourself? What does such dying produce. hmmm? <so many examples you willfully ignore that testify to you obstinacy>

Death must be overcome, before life is known and experienced. Ask Lazarus . . .

Your understanding the account is skewed because you have been persuaded the raising of Lazarus is about him escaping hell and going to heaven. Nothing else has ever entered your mind because of the teaching you and others, have taken in. <The reason knowledgeable folk call Calvinism a bane to the gospel . . .its a snare, preventing spiritual insight. How? By keeping the message of the gospel to be a never ending argument man's salvation from hell>

Fallen man, though separated from God, was never made reprobate by it. You can't prove otherwise, your false assertions from the naked word of God; any scripture found in the Bible.

Lazarus is a type of what a person is given to do, i.e., abandon his stinking "dead" life at the foot of the cross, and by the power of Christ Jesus be resurrected in newness of life ___ and to be kept by such abandonment.

'You abide in Me and I abide in you or nothing gets accomplished. If you "choose" to stay in your sins, you will remain, spiritually dead. The choice is yours'. . . "I have come that you have life, "abundant life" . . Come unto me". . . Jesus. Get the picture?