ECT Open Rebuke is Better...and needed, here

[glorydaz]

I believe God chooses who will be saved and man has already chosen his fate. Christ laid down His life for His friends....yes even before He chose to make them friends.

God isn't going to save anyone He doesn't want to and you, Sozo, Nicky boy, uncle Tom Cobbler or anyone else will make Him.

The Gospel saves, and that's why we preach it. It's also why we stand against those who preach a false gospel.

If you guys had your way heaven will be as messed up as the world is now.

Wrong, if we had our way, false gospels would not be preached. Men would know they HAVE TO COME TO GOD for salvation. They can't sit on their duffs hoping God will choose them.

And the church is in a mess because of this stubborn wilful doctrine. Much as I respect you and normally agree with you. But if Nang is going to be abused for believing in Predestiny Election I will stand with her. I might not stand with her on double Predestiny.

Wrong again, Tottie, dear. God expects us to COME to Him. The world is messed up because men don't know they must WILLINGLY come to their Great God and Saviour. It doesn't help when people tell them it won't do them any good to seek God or that they are unable to do so. That is the travesty we face as these end days come upon us.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!​

 

[Nang]

Well, Nang, if you preach the Gospel that saves instead of some other, you won't be condemned or accursed.

I have never proclaimed anything other than salvation that comes by the grace of God.

If you preach a God who is UNJUST...one who picks and chooses who to save and who to die for....instead of a Righteous, Holy, and Loving God....you will be called out.

It is not "unjust" for God to sovereignly determine who He will save and who He will not.

That is only your opinion, but it is not biblical in the slightest degree.

If you preach that God gives us life BEFORE we believe, you will condemned for preaching a false Gospel.

Why?

How can death produce life?

Death must be overcome, before life is known and experienced. Ask Lazarus . . .

That's how it works. Like it or not.

You are wrong, and quite arrogant expressing your errors . . .

I like them not.

 

[Nang]

You are definitely warped if you think people are Christians that tell others God created them to send them to hell.

I notice you did not address that the first time I said it earlier.

Heh . . .


Nick thinks that Christians who warn sinners, that God will send many to hell, according to His sovereign choice, are worse than Christians that curse others to hell, because they think they can?

Who is really knowledgabe and authorized to judge and consign men to hell?

God or Nick?

 

[Totton Linnet]

The Gospel saves, and that's why we preach it. It's also why we stand against those who preach a false gospel.



Wrong, if we had our way, false gospels would not be preached. Men would know they HAVE TO COME TO GOD for salvation. They can't sit on their duffs hoping God will choose them.



Wrong again, Tottie, dear. God expects us to COME to Him. The world is messed up because men don't know they must WILLINGLY come to their Great God and Saviour. It doesn't help when people tell them it won't do them any good to seek God or that they are unable to do so. That is the travesty we face as these end days come upon us.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!​

He stopped their ears from hearing and their eyes from seeing and their hearts from understanding and there is nothing you can do about it.

The travesty in these end days is that people are invited to come to the front and make a decision for Christ of their "own free will" and are received in the church without a glimmer of work being done in their hearts by the Holy Spirit.

The truth is dear glory that nobody can come to Christ unless the Father draw him...there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[glorydaz]

I have never proclaimed anything other than salvation that comes by the grace of God.

You left something out. By Grace THROUGH FAITH. God does not believe or TRUST for us. We must do that ourselves. From faith to faith....His and ours. It's OUR FAITH that gives us the victory, and it's how we access His Grace. Romans 5:2

It is not "unjust" for God to sovereignly determine who He will save and who He will not.

Of course not. He saves those who believe and trust in Him. He does not believe or trust for us.

How can death produce life?

Death must be overcome, before life is known and experienced. Ask Lazarus . . .

Christ's death produces life in those who BELIEVE. Believing in the death, burial, and resurrection produces LIFE everlasting. Lazarus woke to die again, so that is a bad example.

You are wrong, and quite arrogant expressing your errors . . .

I like them not.

I don't give a rip if you like them or not. :chuckle:

 

[Totton Linnet]

You left something out. By Grace THROUGH FAITH. God does not believe or TRUST for us. We must do that ourselves. From faith to faith....His and ours. It's OUR FAITH that gives us the victory, and it's how we access His Grace. Romans 5:2




Of course not. He saves those who believe and trust in Him. He does not believe or trust for us.



Christ's death produces life in those who BELIEVE. Believing in the death, burial, and resurrection produces LIFE everlasting. Lazarus woke to die again, so that is a bad example.




I don't give a rip if you like them or not. :chuckle:

And YOU left something out

By grace are ye saved through faith AND THAT not of yourselves....lest anyone should boast in the presence of the Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

He stopped their ears from hearing and their eyes from seeing and their hearts from understanding and there is nothing you can do about it.

The travesty in these end days is that people are invited to come to the front and make a decision for Christ of their "own free will" and are received in the church without a glimmer of work being done in their hearts by the Holy Spirit.

The truth is dear glory that nobody can come to Christ unless the Father draw him...there is nothing you can do about it.

That was for a purpose....so that we could hear the Gospel and be saved. :sigh:

You may as well stop saying there is nothing I can do about it. I have never claimed I can do anything. It's God who does the persuading, and that's how I was saved. My choice was to trust in Him once I was fully persuaded He was able to perform what He had promised. I was PERSUADED to believe and trust by hearing the Gospel preached.

Stop saying an altar call is what I believe. I wasn't saved in a church, and no one asked me to come forward. You sell the Holy Spirit short by claiming He is not drawing all men. God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't want anyone to perish, and does everything He can within His own prescribed plan of salvation. He does not believe for us, and He does not TRUST for us. Thus, all men are without excuse....as the Word says, Tottie dearest.

 

[6days]

:nono: I'm doing the rebuking here. It is a TOL sermon, much needed this Lord's Sunday.

VERY VERY good points in the opening, Lon... Well said, and thanks for the sermon.

 

[glorydaz]

And YOU left something out

By grace are ye saved through faith AND THAT not of yourselves....lest anyone should boast in the presence of the Lord.

THAT is referring to salvation. Salvation is not of yourself. You can not boast in your own salvation. Diagram that sentence and see what you get.

 

[glorydaz]

Heh . . .


Nick thinks that Christians who warn sinners, that God will send many to hell, according to His sovereign choice, are worse than Christians that curse others to hell, because they think they can?

Who is really knowledgabe and authorized to judge and consign men to hell?

God or Nick?

Why warn sinners at all, Nang? According to you it does no good. You can't help but contradict your own doctrine, can you? :chuckle:

 

[Totton Linnet]

That was for a purpose....so that we could hear the Gospel and be saved. :sigh:

You may as well stop saying there is nothing I can do about it. I have never claimed I can do anything. It's God who does the persuading, and that's how I was saved. My choice was to trust in Him once I was fully persuaded He was able to perform what He had promised. I was PERSUADED to believe and trust by hearing the Gospel preached.

Stop saying an altar call is what I believe. I wasn't saved in a church, and no one asked me to come forward. You sell the Holy Spirit short by claiming He is not drawing all men. God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't want anyone to perish, and does everything He can within His own prescribed plan of salvation. He does not believe for us, and He does not TRUST for us. Thus, all men are without excuse....as the Word says, Tottie dearest.

He persuaded you...I think He subdued your will, but let us say He persuaded you but others hear the gospel as you do, there are folks on this forum who know the gospel inside out and are atheist for all that. Aren't you selling God's persuasive power a little short here?

When Paul rode in a rage to Damascus the Lord was able to persuade him. Paul had a choice, how nice of God, no doubt he curtsied and asked Paul nicely.....

Nobody said God wanted any to perish...man chose that, man is at enmity with God...if you don't believe it go down to your local booze hall and try telling them the gospel....you will soon find out that man is God's enemy. God DOES draw all men to Christ...He drew the Pharisees, God drew them to the cross.

They don't have any reason to hate God they just do.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You try to turn chaff into wheat when the purpose of God is to blow it away. The church gets filled up with UNsaved Christians [who have "made a decision"] and you can't tell the church from the world.

 

[glorydaz]

He persuaded you...I think He subdued your will, but let us say He persuaded you but others hear the gospel as you do, there are folks on this forum who know the gospel inside out and are atheist for all that. Aren't you selling God's persuasive power a little short here?

Hey, He made the rules, I didn't. Men have to come willingly. Some love the darkness more than the light. Some love themselves more than their Creator. Some don't come until their last breath is drawn. Some never do.

When Paul rode in a rage to Damascus the Lord was able to persuade him. Paul had a choice, how nice of God, no doubt he curtsied and asked Paul nicely.....

Don't be silly. Some come easy, and some have to be brought low. Man is not a puppet on God's string.

Nobody said God wanted any to perish...man chose that, man is at enmity with God...if you don't believe it go down to your local booze hall and try telling them the gospel....you will soon find out that man is God's enemy. God DOES draw all men to Christ...He drew the Pharisees, God drew them to the cross.

Yep, there are all kinds of men. Man is NOT God's enemy, he is God's creation. We were created to know God and to seek Him. The Cross is what removed the enmity on God's part, now each of us must reach out and take His hand. He's patient isn't He? He was certainly patient with me.

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?​

They don't have any reason to hate God they just do.

No, not all men hate God. The problem is they don't know how to connect with Him. It's why our Lord came....to draw us near so we could HEAR His voice and believe.

 

[Totton Linnet]

THIS is the whole point of Predestiny and Election.

The moment the revelation comes to you that God chose YOU personally He chose YOU before all worlds began you KNOW you can never be lost. What glory this is, what assurance.

That's why I say freewill doctrine is the mother and father of conditional salvation and breeds doubt and fear and works and lawkeeping and uncertainty . Because the basis of freewill doctrine is man.

 

[glorydaz]

You try to turn chaff into wheat when the purpose of God is to blow it away.

Nonsense. I preach the Gospel to the lost. You act like there are human beings that aren't worth your time. I'm surprised by that.

The church gets filled up with UNsaved Christians [who have "made a decision"] and you can't tell the church from the world.

Yeah, I certainly agree with that. Truth be told, it's always been that way.

 

[Nimrod]

You left something out. By Grace THROUGH FAITH. God does not believe or TRUST for us. We must do that ourselves. From faith to faith....His and ours. It's OUR FAITH that gives us the victory, and it's how we access His Grace. Romans 5:2

Now there is something to boast about. You had faith and others did not. This is also called a man centered gospel. It is up to man to have faith.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Hey, He made the rules, I didn't. Men have to come willingly. Some love the darkness more than the light. Some love themselves more than their Creator. Some don't come until their last breath is drawn. Some never do.



Don't be silly. Some come easy, and some have to be brought low. Man is not a puppet on God's string.



Yep, there are all kinds of men. Man is NOT God's enemy, he is God's creation. We were created to know God and to seek Him. The Cross is what removed the enmity on God's part, now each of us must reach out and take His hand. He's patient isn't He? He was certainly patient with me.

Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?​

No, not all men hate God. The problem is they don't know how to connect with Him. It's why our Lord came....to draw us near so we could HEAR His voice and believe.

*
The problem with all this is there is not a scrap of scripture in it, it is all just nice ol' human wisdom.

The scripture is WHILE we were yet enemies Christ died for the ungodly....nobody was seeking, nobody was reaching out, they had every one turned to his own way.

God did it all by Himself and as far as I am concerned He will have all the glory.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You see the Jews in the bible, they were bad enough...do you know what the national religion of Britain was back then? it was burning children as sacrifices to the devil. that was the religious folk....there was not so much as a spark of light before the gospel came and with the gospel came God's sovereign almighty power to conquer man with love.

Conquer.

 

[glorydaz]

THIS is the whole point of Predestiny and Election.

The moment the revelation comes to you that God chose YOU personally He chose YOU before all worlds began you KNOW you can never be lost. What glory this is, what assurance.

That's why I say freewill doctrine is the mother and father of conditional salvation and breeds doubt and fear and works and lawkeeping and uncertainty . Because the basis of freewill doctrine is man.

Hmmm....I don't really believe God chose me "personally". He chose whosoever believeth. The "us in Him". That "we" which are the body of Christ.

Eph. 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:​

It was predetermined that those IN CHRIST (the Elect ONE) would be conformed into His image.


Being IN CHRIST is the best assurance anyone could ever have, so I wouldn't point at the "freewill doctrine" as having anything to do with one's assurance.

 

[glorydaz]

Now there is something to boast about. You had faith and others did not. This is also called a man centered gospel. It is up to man to have faith.

I suppose you throw out every single verse that speaks of our faith IN HIM? There is the faith of Jesus Christ and our faith in Christ. Just like reconciliation, TWO are required. We live by HIS faith, and we access the Grace of God by our faith. There is NOTHING man centered about believing and trusting in our Lord Jesus Christ. Are you a puppet or a man created in God's image. A reasoning, thinking man with a will to choose to follow your God or reject Him. Why are you people so one-sided?