ECT Pentecostal Testimony

[Lazy afternoon]

Where does an intimate knowing of Christ fit in?

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You haven't thought this through.

If you're right, the only reason anyone believes the Gospel is because God wanted them to believe it. Well if you accept that premise, you automatically accept this one too: the only reason unbelievers do not believe is because God did not want them to -- else they would. No two ways about it: if free will does not exist, then God is a liar and a fraud for condemning all who refuse to believe on Christ, for it's His choice that they don't. But since He is not a liar nor a fraud, free will exists.

I was saved through my faith in Christ, not by it. For without faith it is impossible to please God. There is no merit whatsoever in that; I simply did what God pleads with all to do (2 Cor 5:20). I am being saved, and will be saved, by Christ's faithfulness. It doesn't depend on me any more than it depended on Noah once he was inside the ark.

The problem is that you keep subtly equating faith with work. It isn't. Never was, never will be. Until you stop miscomputing it as such, this discussion goes nowhere.

By the way. Why would God plead with those who have no free will to do as He pleads, or with those whom He will cause to believe when He gets around to it? Without free will, His pleading is not only meaningless, it's a lie. Is that really the God you worship?

You do not know what you're talking about. They do not know that. They can't. That's why Lordship Salvation exists. They hope they are, and seek to convince themselves they are, and may succeed in doing so. But it's always against the facts that (1) none can know 100% for sure until after death whether he was elect or not, and (2) they could still be revealed to be an destined-for-burning reprobate before it's over with.

You are boasting.

What you're really saying is that your salvation ultimately depends -- not on Christ's finished work before the Father on your behalf -- but on what YOU do or don't do. You won't dare admit it but you're saving yourself. That's cause for boasting, which is exactly what you just did. You've believed a false gospel and you sound quite proud of it.

Good post!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

What you're really saying is that your salvation ultimately depends -- not on Christ's finished work before the Father on your behalf -- but on what YOU do or don't do. You won't dare admit it but you're saving yourself. That's cause for boasting, which is exactly what you just did. You've believed a false gospel and you sound quite proud of it.

You are arguing against your own view.

If something does not depend on man for their salvation then God did all of the choosing of who will be saved.

The co-operation between man and God or the lack of, has always determined whether men are saved or not.

It is what saved men do which determines whether more men will be saved or not.

Your folly and that of all madists is that you think all believers are sealed at their first believing.

and you reject what it is necessary that the believer becomes sealed and your acceptance of John W as a fellow Christian shows your absolute ignorance of the truth, Christ and His Apostles preached.

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

The Church has allowed for the possibility of the gift of tongues in certain situations. I myself have never experienced that gift, and don't really expect to.

Bully for your church!

 

[Cross Reference]

1. I am saved by God's faithfulness to His own Word that He will not lose any whom He has declared dead, forgiven, justified and forever sealed and fused into His Son. UESIC is really that simple, Andy. You'll either believe those truths for yourself, or you won't.

Naah! A mess of "maybe" with a little hope thrown it with the result being emotion that quickly runs its course. You don't even know you have been saved or not or declared dead or whatever. So how do you know you have been sealed when you aren't there yet to find out?

 

[patrick jane]

Interesting you brought up Angels. While I agree, you might want to consider, since angels have no advocate with God because they were created individually and should they become "unrighteous", who could advocate for them? In like fashion, Adam had no advocate while continuing to procreate many sons of God but, in a fallen condition, until Jesus was born into the scene through the seed of Adam (Gen 3:15), not to stop it because the seed of Adam was fallen seed, but to make a way of reconciliation possible and that by His blood which was in common with the rest humanity with the exception His Blood was of His Heavenly Father __ the fathers bloodline being that which in past on hereditarily. [The main reason why Mary didn't have be born sinless . . ]

you learned that from Paul

 

[Cross Reference]

you learned that from Paul

If that is a question my answer is I learned it from scripture in general and by insight into them by the Holy Spirit did I arrive at conclusions that do not violate other scripture..

 

[patrick jane]

If that is a question my answer is I learned it from scripture in general and by insight into them by the Holy Spirit did I arrive at conclusions that do not violate other scripture..

Paul is the BEST. Bible author , that is. but i'm sure you would have seen that with your insight, without Paul telling us of the revelation from the Risen Christ. in fact, maybe you're jealous of Paul, and think he was boastful. read again, and then try to explain Christ better, for me (us) - :nono:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The "Grace Message" was given to Paul on the road to Damascus.
We were all created with free-will to choose what we want to place
our faith in. Once someone has heard "Paul's Gospel" (given to Paul
by the risen Christ.) they have the choice of accepting or rejecting
the mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life that God's Grace offers;
through Christ's death and resurrection.

If they should place their faith in Christ as their Lord and Savior,
They are, sealed, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit and baptized (not
by water) into the Body of Christ. As part of their 'conversion'
they receive the "Righteousness" of Christ and cannot lose that
position. (OSAS) Someday they will stand before, God the Son
(Christ) and be given rewards or suffer the loss of rewards.

Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luk 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[JosephR]

I got bored reading,,did andy ever speak in tongues?

and as far as doing anything goes.. I remember Christ said if you had the faith of a mustard seed you could tell mountains to move and they would move their smokey top self's where you told them But I have never seen it, but I believe all things are possible with and thru Christ.

Actually I think I will go read the whole long first 3 posts..lol My son has recently started to go to church with his girlfriend and its Pentecostal..and I dont want Him feeling pressured into thinking there is something wrong with Him because He dont speak in tongues.. people are strange, they do all kinds of things that God, Jesus the Holy Spirit sent OTHER people to do,,not them,,, like drink poison or handle snakes, speak in tongues ect ect..

God only ever told me but one thing..and it was to wake up and realize the He is God.....no further instructions needed or been given but I do await

 

[Lazy afternoon]

and as far as doing anything goes.. I remember Christ said if you had the faith of a mustard seed you could tell mountains to move and they would move their smokey top self's where you told them But I have never seen it, but I believe all things are possible with and thru Christ.

Its a prophecy--

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Jer 51:61 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words;
Jer 51:62 Then shalt thou say, O LORD, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.
Jer 51:63 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:
Jer 51:64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.



Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

[Cross Reference]

Paul is the BEST. Bible author , that is. but i'm sure you would have seen that with your insight, without Paul telling us of the revelation from the Risen Christ. in fact, maybe you're jealous of Paul, and think he was boastful. read again, and then try to explain Christ better, for me (us) - :nono:

Sorry, I don't believe I can do that with you or for you. You have a spiritual 'blockage' that prevents your understanding, you need to overcome. That is a personal matter and journey no one but God can help you with until you give yourself completely over to Him...

 

[andyc]

I got bored reading,,did andy ever speak in tongues?

and as far as doing anything goes.. I remember Christ said if you had the faith of a mustard seed you could tell mountains to move and they would move their smokey top self's where you told them But I have never seen it, but I believe all things are possible with and thru Christ.

Actually I think I will go read the whole long first 3 posts..lol My son has recently started to go to church with his girlfriend and its Pentecostal..and I dont want Him feeling pressured into thinking there is something wrong with Him because He dont speak in tongues.. people are strange, they do all kinds of things that God, Jesus the Holy Spirit sent OTHER people to do,,not them,,, like drink poison or handle snakes, speak in tongues ect ect..

God only ever told me but one thing..and it was to wake up and realize the He is God.....no further instructions needed or been given but I do await

Looks like this seed fell by wayside. LOL

 

[Cross Reference]

I got bored reading,,did andy ever speak in tongues?

and as far as doing anything goes.. I remember Christ said if you had the faith of a mustard seed you could tell mountains to move and they would move their smokey top self's where you told them But I have never seen it, but I believe all things are possible with and thru Christ.

The heathen seek signs. The righteous seek God __ to know Him.

re the "faith as a grain of mustard seed" is even less than what Paul lived by because it was, in measure, faith OF Christ, the quality of faith He possessed by a gift from his Pentecostal experience. Here,written in plain english:

"I have been put to death on the cross with Christ; still I am living; no longer I, but Christ is living in me; and that life which I now am living in the flesh I am living by faith, the faith of the Son of God, who in love for me, gave himself up for me." Galatians 2:20 How can that be if Paul was not born again and empowered by the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ __ as JTB prophesied? It isn't rocket science.

Actually I think I will go read the whole long first 3 posts..lol My son has recently started to go to church with his girlfriend and its Pentecostal..and I dont want Him feeling pressured into thinking there is something wrong with Him because He dont speak in tongues.. people are strange, they do all kinds of things that God, Jesus the Holy Spirit sent OTHER people to do,,not them,,, like drink poison or handle snakes, speak in tongues ect ect..

God only ever told me but one thing..and it was to wake up and realize the He is God.....no further instructions needed or been given but I do await

Perhaps you haven't had ears to hear Him say more?

Question: Do you believe Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever?

Do you believe you have experienced this of Him?:

"And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people." Luke 3:15-18 (KJV)

Do you believe you have been taught of Him?:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26 (KJV)

Have you the confidence He will perform what He promised?:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16:13-15 (KJV)

Do you believe He will give you a stone if you ask Him for bread?

 

[Cross Reference]

Looks like this seed fell by wayside. LOL

. . . or loves his life too much to give it up.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luk 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

?

 

[andyc]

You haven't thought this through.

If you're right, the only reason anyone believes the Gospel is because God wanted them to believe it. Well if you accept that premise, you automatically accept this one too: the only reason unbelievers do not believe is because God did not want them to -- else they would. No two ways about it: if free will does not exist, then God is a liar and a fraud for condemning all who refuse to believe on Christ, for it's His choice that they don't. But since He is not a liar nor a fraud, free will exists.

OK

I was saved through my faith in Christ, not by it. For without faith it is impossible to please God. There is no merit whatsoever in that; I simply did what God pleads with all to do (2 Cor 5:20). I am being saved, and will be saved, by Christ's faithfulness. It doesn't depend on me any more than it depended on Noah once he was inside the ark.

This is where it starts to get fiddly.
You just aren't making sense here. You said that there is no merit on your part for believing, then quoted a verse saying that without faith it's impossible to please God. Well there must be some merit on your part because yo chose to believe (used faith), which pleased God.
I can see where you're completely confused. You do not understand the relationship between grace and faith. It is because of grace that all of the work has been done for us, and we simply enter in by faith.

The problem is that you keep subtly equating faith with work.

No I don't. Faith is what appropriates (takes hold of) what God has supplied.

It isn't. Never was, never will be. Until you stop miscomputing it as such, this discussion goes nowhere.

You are not understand grace and faith.

By the way. Why would God plead with those who have no free will to do as He pleads, or with those whom He will cause to believe when He gets around to it? Without free will, His pleading is not only meaningless, it's a lie. Is that really the God you worship?

No. I am a proponent of free will.

You do not know what you're talking about. They do not know that. They can't. That's why Lordship Salvation exists. They hope they are, and seek to convince themselves they are, and may succeed in doing so. But it's always against the facts that (1) none can know 100% for sure until after death whether he was elect or not, and (2) they could still be revealed to be an destined-for-burning reprobate before it's over with.

Nope. They (Calvinists) know for sure because they have the witness of the Spirit within, if they are truly born again.

You are boasting.

What you're really saying is that your salvation ultimately depends -- not on Christ's finished work before the Father on your behalf -- but on what YOU do or don't do. You won't dare admit it but you're saving yourself. That's cause for boasting, which is exactly what you just did. You've believed a false gospel and you sound quite proud of it.

Nonsense.
Does the man sinking in quicksand boast in his clinging to a rope thrown to him while being dragged to safety?

Grace is 100% the work of God gifted to us. Faith is 100% the response of man to lay hold of it.

 

[andyc]

The Church has allowed for the possibility of the gift of tongues in certain situations. I myself have never experienced that gift, and don't really expect to.

You have not because you ask not.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I'm a word faith charismatic pentecostal, and was brought up in an AOG church, was born again when I was about 21 I guess,

How were you 'born again' (saved)?

 

[meshak]

You have not because you ask not.

So are you saying if you ask for speaking in tongue, you will speak in tongue?

I know what AoG believes because I was a member for several months. I was devoted member too.