The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[DFT_Dave]

A proof for the existence of God

Point: The very possibility of God means he exists.

Counter point: I can imagine all kinds of Gods who's existence is only in my head.

Point: Only one kind of God can create an intelligently designed universe.

Counter point: This is only one of a gazillion universes and the odds are this one, fine tuned for life, will just turn up. This does not require a God of intelligent design.

Point: So you're saying that the very possibility of this kind of universe means it will exist?

Counter Point: Yes, the odds are part of what we call quantum physics.

Point: So then the very possibility of God means he exists as well.

Counter point: No! Like I said all God's are imagined and exist only in our heads.

Point: I think all your other gazillion universes are imagined and exist only in your head.

Counter point: Not the same thing.

Point: If there is only one universe and this is it, then that it is fine tuned for life means it is intelligently designed and if there is only one existing intelligent designer then that would be God.

An updated cosmological argument for the existence of God.

This is an example of how I prepare arguments for park evangelism.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

The new Nikon P900 is one of the most powerful video cameras for consumers on the market, and not badly priced.

"cameras for consumers"

Right, because a consumer grade camera is going to perform the same as a multimillion dollar piece of finely tuned equipment.

If you did not see the video of the stars I posted then you did not see the big difference between what NASA is showing us and what these cameras are showing us. As pictures the stars seem blurred to you because there is alot of movement of the light coming from the stars that surprises every one.

--Dave

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[CabinetMaker]

The point is the videos show stares to be very different than what NASA is showing us.

--Dave

Yes it is different but that doesn't mean NASA is wrong. It means that the Nikon laks the resolution of telescopes used by NASA and observatories. Your evidence is inconclusive.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

As I said, if I concede any one point at this time this debate is over. I am examining all the good stuff you post, but I will render my conclusions when I think I have understood this well enough. Thanks for the graph, very helpful.

--Dave

This statement of yours blows my mind.

If I ever am presented with a fact that is true beyond any doubt I accept it. How it may or may not affect my world view comes later.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Yes it is different but that doesn't mean NASA is wrong. It means that the Nikon laks the resolution of telescopes used by NASA and observatories. Your evidence is inconclusive.

Good point you may be correct, or not. But it needs to be considered. Thanks.

--Dave


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Only NASA could be creating a conspiracy, some on the other side would be as you suggest just idiots, most however are likely sincerely wanting to know why the earth they live on that seems flat and stationary is just the opposite.

Your statement is false.

911 conspiracy folks have created a conspiracy. They are a VERY small minority but they have created a conspiracy. It didn't take NASA or some large group of people with power. Just a small group of morons with computers and a internet connection.

Similarly.... the flat earth morons have created a VERY small conspiracy that only a few extremely gullible and willing people have bought into. Sadly you are a unexpected casualty.

 

[ok doser]

911 conspiracy folks have created a conspiracy.

but what if they're right? :noid:

 

[CabinetMaker]

The video shows that there is no perfect map for flat or globe earth. That's the only point.

--Dave

Did you have a globe in your classroom when you were a kid. Those globes are as close to perfect as we fave. They accurately represent the relative sizes of the continents.

 

[DFT_Dave]

This statement of yours blows my mind.

If I ever am presented with a fact that is true beyond any doubt I accept it. How it may or may not affect my world view comes later.

This subject cannot be decided by one point there are too many aspects to it. I will address all of them when I conclude.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Your statement is false.

911 conspiracy folks have created a conspiracy. They are a VERY small minority but they have created a conspiracy. It didn't take NASA or some large group of people with power. Just a small group of morons with computers and a internet connection.

Similarly.... the flat earth morons have created a VERY small conspiracy that only a few extremely gullible and willing people have bought into. Sadly you are a unexpected casualty.

You have that technically backwards. The people who say the Towers was an inside job are not the ones who destroyed the towers, either the hijackers conspired to take down the towers or Bush and friends in government conspired to take them down.

Love you enemies!

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Did you have a globe in your classroom when you were a kid. Those globes are as close to perfect as we fave. They accurately represent the relative sizes of the continents.

But it's just not the oblate one that Neil Degrasse Tyson says exists.

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

But it's just not the oblate one that Neil Degrasse Tyson says exists.

--Dave

Yet it still accurately reflects the relative sixes of the coontinents, something that a flat Earth map fails to do. It interesting to note that if you hold a light on a globe and spin the globe, the light we see on the globe is exactly the same as the sun shining in the Earth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Once I concede any one point this debate is over. Did that cross your mind?

Dave, conceding a point to your opponent doesn't mean the debate is over, it just means you're intellectually honest.

And because the astronomy aspect of this topic is what I least understand about it I still want to continue to examine the evidence and arguments you all are providing. I have great respect for all of you. I want to make sure I have looked at this from every possible angle. And I want every argument made by flat earth to see a good counter argument.

I doubt there is a "course" on flat earth at any university so this is the next best thing. I just want to throw up every time I hear that you, or any one else want to lock up, burn at the stake, or throw into an insane asylum any one who thinks flat earth is a possible, Biblical cosmology. I expect this kind of talk from atheists but not from Christians.

--Dave

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[JudgeRightly]

The video shows that there is no perfect map for flat or globe earth. That's the only point.

--Dave

Sure, everyone agrees that the current maps are not perfect. That does NOT mean, however that they aren't pretty darn close to accurate.

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[DFT_Dave]

Yet it still accurately reflects the relative sixes of the coontinents, something that a flat Earth map fails to do. It interesting to note that if you hold a light on a globe and spin the globe, the light we see on the globe is exactly the same as the sun shining in the Earth.

The Flat earth model and the globe model have the same calendar and the same movement of the sun, moon, and stars. They simply have the sun, moon, and stars at different sizes and different distances from the earth. The heliocentric and geocentric models also share the same calendar, etc. We have had three models of the universe in the past, flat, geocentric, and heliocentric. We are now living with a forth one, space time.

--Dave

 

[chair]

Don't say stupid things.

Dave's been totally honest and up front with what he's been doing from the beginning.

Dave has been horribly dishonest. Intellectually dishonest. he will "consider all of the information", and then rejects everything that is against his idea as being fake, or he has to "check it further". In the meantime, those absurd videos get accepted as facts- even when what they claim is patently wrong (just go outside and watch a sunset or sunrise, and you will see that the sun doesn't get smaller and smaller as it sets. It sinks below the horizon).

At best he is deluding himself.

 

[CabinetMaker]

The Flat earth model and the globe model have the same calendar and the same movement of the sun, moon, and stars. They simply have the sun, moon, and stars at different sizes and different distances from the earth. The heliocentric and geocentric models also share the same calendar, etc. We have had three models of the universe in the past, flat, geocentric, and heliocentric. We are now living with a forth one, space time.

--Dave

Your flat Earth model doesn't show the continents in their proper sizes. Your flat earth model doesn't properly model sun Amon sides and sets. Your model says they get smaller when, in fact, they appear to get bigger! (They never change size but when they get close to the horizon we have a frame of reference. It's easy to prove to yourself using your thumb and the moon. At moon rise, hold your thumb at arms length next to the moon. Later, when the moon is high, hold your thumb at arms length next to the moon. What do you notice? It also works with the sun provided you have proper eye protection.)

 

[Clete]

....I don't consider these to higher than 6th grade understanding.

Well, I had "3rd grade" in there at first but then changed it. Maybe I over shot! :chuckle:

 

[Clete]

I've be asked if I think the earth is flat before, so I'm sure it will happen again. And when I have said no they say well the Bible says it is. I have always used the usual arguments that we all know, but!!!

I strongly believe in having integrity, if you try to con them in the park they see right through you very quickly. You have to be very sure of your positions and very loving when you speak. I've never tried to answer every question but I want to be able to answer the important ones.

I was, at the start, preparing to answer questions about space time and multiverses. Face it, our Copernican model has become a space time block with gazillions other evolving universes. Where do you put God into that mess? Cosmology today is used to deny God's existence.

--Dave

Agreed

 

[Clete]

Dave has been horribly dishonest. Intellectually dishonest. he will "consider all of the information", and then rejects everything that is against his idea as being fake, or he has to "check it further". In the meantime, those absurd videos get accepted as facts- even when what they claim is patently wrong (just go outside and watch a sunset or sunrise, and you will see that the sun doesn't get smaller and smaller as it sets. It sinks below the horizon).

At best he is deluding himself.

You're wrong, chair.

I understand why you'd think this but I'm still convinced that you're wrong.

Not every defense attorney thinks his client is innocent. Didn't you ever know anyone who was taking debate class and had to argue the side of an issue he disagreed with?

If, on the outside chance that I'm wrong on this, I will be very disappointed indeed but for now, let's just take Dave at his word and hold off on all the judgemental comments until we know they're justified.

Clete