toldailytopic: Should the Boy Scouts of America lift the gay ban and allow homosexual

[Angel4Truth]

Who?
Who should make their own scouting club?

The gays, why cant they just make their own scouting club and admit whoever they want?

I can imagine that if i were a boy i wouldn't want someone who identifies with the opposite sex in themselves going out and camping, sleeping, showering and spending that much time with me or even having the thought that they might find me attractive sexually.

Do the gays ever think about anyone elses comfort other than their own?

 

[gcthomas]

NO, they should not lift the ban! That would go against their own oaths:

DUTY TO GOD AND COUNTRY: Your family and religious leaders teach you to know and serve God. By following these teachings, you do your duty to God.

But duty to whose god? BSA allows muslims, jews, zoroastrans, hindus, buddhists and those who define their own spirituality, et al. Why should only the evangelical christian view of one particular holy book govern all? Not all these groups treat gays as evil. Any god will do for Scouting.

DUTY TO SELF: ... Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character.

Again, being morally straight is defined by each of the 25+ accepted faiths, and they agree on most things, but the homosexuality 'thing' is a specifically evangelical christian 'thing'. Scouting is wider than any particular denomination, and this means everyone should exercise tolerance of others' beliefs.

 

[Granite]

Call me intolerant, but I wouldn't let a straight male adult take my 13 year old daughter camping either.

Umm...that's pretty silly, Del.

 

[annabenedetti]

Do the gays ever think about anyone elses comfort other than their own?

Do straight people?

This is where things go off the tracks, when Christians take a religious belief and walk it into bigotry. It's one thing to believe homosexual behavior is sinful and another to classify a whole demographic as selfish and uncaring.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Do straight people?

This is where things go off the tracks, when Christians take a religious belief and walk it into bigotry. It's one thing to believe homosexual behavior is sinful and another to classify a whole demographic as selfish and uncaring.

If a gay is in, then one might as well let a female in. Why have boy scouts then, why not just scouts?

Its no more "uncaring" to disallow a gay to supervise them than a woman, or to refuse girls into the boy scouts, and if no one knows why to keep the girls and boys separate - and how that is a legitimate argument against same sex closeness in sleeping camping quarters etc.. then i feel sorry for them.

Would you like public restrooms to be only one and we can all use them together instead of having male and female restrooms?

If no, then you must be uncaring.

 

[annabenedetti]

Umm...that's pretty silly, Del.

Not necessarily.

Parents can never let their guard down when it comes to their kids going on overnights. No matter the sexual orientation of the adults, abuse can and does happen in opportunistic situations, and since most abuse is committed by family or friends, it's wise for parents to use caution and evaluate each situation.

 

[bybee]

Not necessarily.

Parents can never let their guard down when it comes to their kids going on overnights. No matter the sexual orientation of the adults, abuse can and does happen in opportunistic situations, and since most abuse is committed by family or friends, it's wise for parents to use caution and evaluate each situation.

Absolutely true!

 

[Granite]

Not necessarily.

Parents can never let their guard down when it comes to their kids going on overnights.

Well, of course. But...

No matter the sexual orientation of the adults, abuse can and does happen in opportunistic situations, and since most abuse is committed by family or friends, it's wise for parents to use caution and evaluate each situation.

Yeah, see, here's where you lose me. If an adult who sleeps with other grown dudes is supervising a bunch of little girls, umm--well jeez, that's about as safe as they can get, frankly.

 

[bybee]

Well, of course. But...



Yeah, see, here's where you lose me. If an adult who sleeps with other grown dudes is supervising a bunch of little girls, umm--well jeez, that's about as safe as they can get, frankly.

Not at a sleepover!

 

[gcthomas]

If a gay is in, then one might as well let a female in. Why have boy scouts then, why not just scouts?

Its no more "uncaring" to disallow a gay to supervise them than a woman,

To quote the Scouting FAQ page:

Can women be Boy Scout leaders?

Yes. Every leadership position is open to women. In fact, more than one-third of Scout volunteers are women.
​

Women are already in, it seems.

 

[annabenedetti]

Yeah, see, here's where you lose me. If an adult who sleeps with other grown dudes is supervising a bunch of little girls, umm--well jeez, that's about as safe as they can get, frankly.

And that's why practical parenting involves evaluating each situation.

 

[Angel4Truth]

To quote the Scouting FAQ page:

Can women be Boy Scout leaders?

Yes. Every leadership position is open to women. In fact, more than one-third of Scout volunteers are women.
​

Women are already in, it seems.

Answer all of my post, thanks, a den mother is a little different than having girl scouts in the boy scouts

 

[annabenedetti]

If a gay is in, then one might as well let a female in. Why have boy scouts then, why not just scouts?

Its no more "uncaring" to disallow a gay to supervise them than a woman, or to refuse girls into the boy scouts, and if no one knows why to keep the girls and boys separate - and how that is a legitimate argument against same sex closeness in sleeping camping quarters etc.. then i feel sorry for them.

Would you like public restrooms to be only one and we can all use them together instead of having male and female restrooms?

If no, then you must be uncaring.

You said:

Do the gays ever think about anyone elses comfort other than their own?

The above wasn't a commentary on scouting or restrooms, though. If you're talking to the choir, a broad-brush stereotyping of an entire demographic may pass without comment - but if you want to convince someone who holds a different opinion, it isn't going to advance your argument. Just an observation.

 

[Angel4Truth]

You said:
The above wasn't a commentary on scouting or restrooms, though. If you're talking to the choir, a broad-brush stereotyping of an entire demographic will pass without comment - but if you want to convince someone who holds a different opinion, it isn't going to advance your argument. Just an observation.

Read it all again, the same reason we have male and female restrooms is as valid a reason as any to not have gays in the boy scouts.

If one doesnt like that, then they shouldnt like having boy and girl scouts at all, it should just be scouts and throw them all in together and pretend there are no differences and force everyone to be happy with it for the sake of the gender confused minority.

Anyone should get why they do not have the girls and boys together and why the same reason exists that gays do not need to be in with the ones they are attracted to any more than a girl should be in the boy scouts.

I personally do not give a hoot whoever thinks that uncaring, its common sense.

I dont need to explain why men and women, girls and boys have different restrooms, different locker rooms in gym class and different showering facilities.

Those same reasons are why gays do not belong in the boy scouts.

Besides, i would think unless they want something to lust after that a gay boy would be happier in the girl scouts since thats what they want to be anyway.

 

[annabenedetti]

Read it all again, the same reason we have male and female restrooms is as valid a reason as any to not have gays in the boy scouts.

If one doesnt like that, then they shouldnt like having boy and girl scouts at all, it should just be scouts and throw them all in together and pretend there are no differences and force everyone to be happy with it for the sake of the gender confused minority.

Anyone should get why they do not have the girls and boys together and why the same reason exists that gays do not need to be in with the ones they are attracted to any more than a girl should be in the boy scouts.

I personally do not give a hoot whoever thinks that uncaring, its common sense.

I dont need to explain why men and women, girls and boys have different restrooms, different locker rooms in gym class and different showering facilities.

Those same reasons are why gays do not belong in the boy scouts.

Besides, i would think unless they want something to lust after that a gay boy would be happier in the girl scouts since thats what they want to be anyway.

All of that doesn't address the point I'm trying to make. You categorized "the gays" as never thinking about anyone else's comfort other than their own. I don't think that's a supportable statement, any more than it would be if you were talking about "the straights."

Here at TOL you can preach to the choir or provide a convincing argument for those who don't agree with you to at least consider your POV. I just don't think you'll get anywhere with the latter while holding such a broad brush.

 

[gcthomas]

Answer all of my post, thanks, a den mother is a little different than having girl scouts in the boy scouts

I'll answer which bits I see fit to answer, Angel, thanks.

I was responding to your comment `Its no more "uncaring" to disallow a gay to supervise them than a woman,' by pointing out that women are allowed to supervise boy scouts.

What difficulties do you foresee with having girls in the scouts? It hasn't been a problem here since girls were allowed to join the scouts in the UK four decades ago.

 

[Angel4Truth]

All of that doesn't address the point I'm trying to make. You categorized "the gays" as never thinking about anyone else's comfort other than their own. I don't think that's a supportable statement, any more than it would be if you were talking about "the straights."

Here at TOL you can preach to the choir or provide a convincing argument for those who don't agree with you to at least consider your POV. I just don't think you'll get anywhere with the latter while holding such a broad brush.

Its as supportable as saying that you should be comfortable in a public showering facility with a man in there showering.

Its the same thing. No one should be forced into that kind of discomfort.

Allowing a gay man to be sleeping in with a bunch of boys, would be the same thing as allowing a straight man to sleep in with a bunch of teen girls, shower with them, etc..

Common sense - has nothing to do with bigotry, but the same reason we dont put the girls and boys and men and women in the same restroom.

The gays that are trying to force it, could care less about the comfort of others.

This reasoning is not hard to get.

 

[PureX]

I dont need to explain why men and women, girls and boys have different restrooms, different locker rooms in gym class and different showering facilities.

Those same reasons are why gays do not belong in the boy scouts.

Besides, i would think unless they want something to lust after that a gay boy would be happier in the girl scouts since thats what they want to be anyway.

The reason that boys and girls don't share bathrooms and locker rooms is not because of lust. It's because they are anatomically different, have different natures, and different needs. If the reason were lust, then we would only separate them after puberty, when lust would become a factor. And if lust were such a significant factor, as you seem to imagine, such that the mere sight of genital areas might cause sexual assaults, then we would also be segregating health care, beaches, and especially our nude beaches. I have participated in many college level art classes that involved nude models, with students and models of both sexes and various sexual proclivities, I'm sure, and yet lust was never an issue.

The point is that what you claim to be common sense is neither common nor sensible. Men and women may feel lust in and out of locker rooms, bathrooms, beaches, or anywhere else. And yet they manage to keep their lust in check, as much as can reasonably be expected. Even the pubescent teens. So there is no logical reason that gay scouts could not keep their lust in check the same as hetero scouts do regardless of bathrooms and locker rooms and beaches, or the mere sight of anyone else's genitals.

 

[gcthomas]

Allowing a gay man to be sleeping in with a bunch of boys, would be the same thing as allowing a straight man to sleep in with a bunch of teen girls, shower with them, etc..

But allowing a woman in the same situation is OK? Not campaigning to stop women being scout leaders then? There are plenty of ways to ensure privacy in scout camps, and I'm pretty sure communal showers went out of scouting a long time ago.

Common sense - has nothing to do with bigotry,

Arguing from 'common sense' means arguing 'without feeling you have to justify any bigotry'.

but the same reason we dont put the girls and boys and men and women in the same restroom.

You've never heard of unisex restrooms in corporate buildings? They're quite common now.

 

[Angel4Truth]

But allowing a woman in the same situation is OK? Not campaigning to stop women being scout leaders then? There are plenty of ways to ensure privacy in scout camps, and I'm pretty sure communal showers went out of scouting a long time ago.


Arguing from 'common sense' means arguing 'without feeling you have to justify any bigotry'.


You've never heard of unisex restrooms in corporate buildings? They're quite common now.

False there are still plenty of communal showers at boy scout camps in the US and no women do not supervise them there.

Unisex restrooms where its not just one toilet with a door lock but instead where multiple sexes are using them at the same time? Where can i find those in the US please?

Or do you mean they are commonplace in the UK?