Bob proud of lynchings?

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Freak
jhodgeiii, is a African-Amercian brother in Christ who has raised some reasonable concerns. I'm still waiting for someone to address his concerns.

It has been addressed.

 

[Zakath]

Bigot - "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Knight, you are saying that Craig McBurney is not intolerant of particular groups, say homosexuals, and does not fit that definition?

Can only someone who disagrees with your viewpoint be a bigot?

 

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by Knight
It has been addressed.

It has? How? That "Bob teaches against vigilantism" but proudly displays vigilantism at the end of his tape?

Check out the scene, Knight. Call it a "public hanging" if you'd like, but even lynchings can be "public hangings" so that answer (whoever gave it) is lazy and insufficient.

Given the setting, the execution looks more like a mob lynching. If you cannot provide real details justifying this scene, then you cannot answer my question. It's as simple as that.

What you should do Knight is admit that you do not have the facts on the scene in question and that perhaps Bob used bad judgment including this questionable scene in his tape. If you can't admit that, then give me some FACTS.

* who was executed?
* when? and why?
* who carried out the execution?

 

[1Way]

4 am prayer -

While stopping short of labeling the Enyart disciples and KGOV "racists", this looks like yet another example of total insensitivity on their part.

So evidently you think we are a bunch of insensitivists. What a crock. We care deeply about what God teaches about the death penalty, which according to the topic at hand, is that capitol offenders should be swiftly (not prolonged torture) but painfully (like being stoned for example) put to death.

Examples of the death penalty carried out in scripture. This list is not exhaustive, nor deeply verified for the best examples.

Leviticus 10:2 So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Numbers 15:36 So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Numbers 16:32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods.
Joshua 7:25 And Joshua said, "Why have you troubled us? The LORD will trouble you this day." So all Israel stoned him with stones; and they burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones.

Wow, consider the following death by splattering a person from a supposed lethal fall, and then by trampling under foot of a horse, and then being eaten by dogs and without a respectful burial because God wanted it that way.

And you say WE are too insensitive. I suppose God here is just outright ravenously cruel and unjust.

2 Kings 9:30 Now when Jehu had come to Jezreel, Jezebel heard [of it]; and she put paint on her eyes and adorned her head, and looked through a window.
31 Then, as Jehu entered at the gate, she said, "Is it peace, Zimri, murderer of your master?"
32 And he looked up at the window, and said, "Who is on my side? Who?" So two or three eunuchs looked out at him.
33 Then he said, "Throw her down." So they threw her down, and some of her blood spattered on the wall and on the horses; and he trampled her underfoot.
34 And when he had gone in, he ate and drank. Then he said, "Go now, see to this accursed woman, and bury her, for she was a king's daughter."
35 So they went to bury her, but they found no more of her than the skull and the feet and the palms of her hands.
36 Therefore they came back and told him. And he said, "This is the word of the LORD, which He spoke by His servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, `On the plot of ground at Jezreel dogs shall eat the flesh of Jezebel;
37 `and the corpse of Jezebel shall be as refuse on the surface of the field, in the plot at Jezreel, so that they shall not say, "Here lies Jezebel."'"

Acts 12:23 Then immediately an angel of the Lord struck him, because he did not give glory to God. And he was eaten by worms and died.

If you go against God, apparently being bludgeoned to death (stoning, or in this case falling) is a Godly remedy. And many argue that execution by the sword is also acceptable even though it may take minuets to bleed to death unless you are decapitated, which seems to not be as much recommended in the scriptures, as apparently it is too swift and not as painful and slow as stoning for example.

Here’s some passages on lynching/hanging a person.

Genesis 40:22 But he hanged the chief baker, as Joseph had interpreted to them.
Deuteronomy 21:21 "Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.
22 "If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree,
23 "his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God.

Isn’t that a wild understatement! Just think of the ridicule and irony involved. As though being put to death by hanging was a blessed or honorable way to die. How could a person be much more accursed than to be put to death for a capitol offense? As far as being “cursed” goes, that is about as bad as it gets, unless of course you don’t give the capitol offender sufficient time to repent before he is put to death. Waiting in the gallows to die is highly redemptive motivation, see the two criminals at the cross for an example of it’s effectiveness.

Joshua 8:29 And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until evening. And as soon as the sun was down, Joshua commanded that they should take his corpse down from the tree, cast it at the entrance of the gate of the city, and raise over it a great heap of stones that remains to this day.
Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua struck them and killed them, and hanged them on five trees; and they were hanging on the trees until evening.
2 Samuel 21:9 and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),

Romans 13:4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to [execute] wrath on him who practices evil.

Gods fear causing minister, baring the sword with Godly purpose as an avenger to execute wrath (punish - repay) the criminal. I think that the sword as wrathful punishment for doing evil has to mean the death penalty, otherwise what would this passage be saying about the sword, that it is to be used for flogging, or as nothing more than a symbol of an outward appearance of lethal force, but never used that way? This passage is validating capitol punishment by use of the sword and since decapitation is no where clearly specified, one may assume that mortal wounds causing circulatory failure is acceptable.

So I don’t remotely get the sensitivity argument. No one is remotely supporting the wrongful treatment of blacks or any other people by anyone, and at the same time, we are supporting all of God’s teachings on the death penalty (which are not comprehensively stated in this post).

It seems to me that 4 am prayer’s comments, and jhodgeiii and perhaps others are prejudiced or at best ignorant.

(All scripture quotes from the NKJV)

 

[1Way]

Knight – Please forgive me for answering posts directed at you. I don’t want to discourage your input, I’d rather encourage it!

As to jhodgeiii’s statement to Knight.

Given the setting, the execution looks more like a mob lynching. If you cannot provide real details justifying this scene, then you cannot answer my question. It's as simple as that.

So you determine that there is not enough evidence to go one way or the other, but you seem to insist that it is a presentation supporting arguably the most cruel racist unjust treatment of blacks, even though the entire video presentation promotes scriptural teachings on this topic.

I don’t have the facts on the scene in the video, but I have heard credible testimony that it was not a black racist hanging. Business people in a public hanging is not the picture of a criminal lynching that we might imagine from white hooded KKK members for example. I heard that the producer of the video said that it was a white person being executed, so for you to assume that it was instead a black person being unjustly lynched, seems not credible.

Do you have ANY responses to the several claims in support that it was a white person being hanged?


- His skin was very light
- He may have been wearing a black facial hood
- The scene is not typical of an illegal racial lynching
- The entire video's message and BEL’s ministry deplores such a terrible injustice as illegally hanging anyone
- Suppose it was a black man that was being hung, why would you automatically think that the hanging was unjust or representative of unjust lynchings?
- Why don’t you rather assume that the graphic representations were chose to be consistent with the teachings and style of the producers instead of contrary to them? Or do you suggest that Bob has problems with racism and has no clearly expressed convictions against such an unloving and unrighteous thing?


But imagine that you were right in that there is not sufficient evidence to decide one way or the other, even then, in light of then videos teaching, that doubt would not be enough to warrant your accusations of racism and extreme cruelty (or insensitivity) that you are alleging. It seems to me that it is you who is being insensitive to the fact that the entire message of the video would completely condemn the notion that you think this one scene seems to promote. Ignorance is forgivable, it's outgrown all the time.(!) Praise God.

Zakath – As to your comment to Knight.

Bigot - "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Knight, you are saying that Craig McBurney is not intolerant of particular groups, say homosexuals, and does not fit that definition?

Can only someone who disagrees with your viewpoint be a bigot?

I’m certain that “Doug” McBurney and us Enyart like minded fans are willing to allow fools and swine and unfit dogs and other such filth to go to hell where they belong, we do not wish that anyone goes to hell unless they are determined to go there. Where intolerance comes in is defending our witness to the world, we want to give the truth in love that can set them free and we will not tolerate anything that goes against that (God and His truth and ways). But again, if you wont accept the truth and God’s way of salvation, then it’s to hell with jet rockets.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii
It has? How? That "Bob teaches against vigilantism" but proudly displays vigilantism at the end of his tape?

Uhg....

Be offended if you like, but your wasting your time and your emotions. Bob and Doug are not racists, not even remotely!

About the image.....What makes you think the image is one of vigilantism? It looks to me like an image of a public execution. A full town of people, all dressed up in their Sunday best hanging a criminal in broad daylight!

Keep in mind.... the video is about the death penalty!!! :doh:

The video covers everything from the proper way to execute people, to improper ways to execute people.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Zakath
Bigot - "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Knight, you are saying that Craig McBurney is not intolerant of particular groups, say homosexuals, and does not fit that definition?

Can only someone who disagrees with your viewpoint be a bigot?

I almost made a point like this..... but I didn't want to mudddy the waters. I think we all know what type of bigot is being discussed here.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

1Way - great posts! (as usual)

 

[1Way]

Knight – But jhodgeiii’s has “potentially” found a graphic that in his mind somehow “symbolizes” exactly against the Godly principles the video teaches. Isn’t the rule that symbols trump over substance, and not the other way around?

So shouldn’t we get rid of all Bibles because it depicts many horrendous deeds of extreme treachery and injustice and even racism? These graphic depictions are rather offensive to many people you know!

Oh ya, and remember that the entire earth’s population is effectively dumbed down when it comes to contextual relevance and the big picture. For example, as long as the phrase “separation of church and state” was penned way back when, it must mean that the two were mutually exclusive to each other, even though the contextual use shows nearly the exact opposite while basically everyone does nothing against the fraudulent claim. All we have to do anymore is claim that some injustice has been done, and the conservative right is supposed to just lay down and surrender in hopes of not stepping on any one’s sensibilities.

“So what” if the video’s message is fully against wrongful capitol offense executions, the paranoid reaction of an ignorant person (perhaps willfully ignorant) trumps the truth in reality, , , right?

Finding a fault where no fault (clearly) lies, isn’t that what it means to backbit and to cause unnecessary strife and division (amongst the brethren)?

 

[1Way]

Opps, did I just prejudice that jhodgeiii is a Christian?

Sorry jhodgeiii, I don't know what you are, and if you are not a saved believer in Christ, sorry for assuming that you might be.

And if you are not a saved person, then perhaps that is your problem with readily grasping spiritual truth and for judging against righteous brethren.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Get your heart ready for some eternal life saving truth! Don’t oppose God’s eternal and saving truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Accept it and His personal offer for salvation.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

You don’t have to become perfect you just have to undergo a heart and mind change that is all triggered by a simple act of faith, in fact, your works have nothing to do with getting or remaining saved.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

And if you just can’t stand these suggestions, then I guess you are a swine and an unfit dog.

Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Do right, trust God, He is worth it all.

PS - Is jhodgeiii some biblical concept promoting Godly principles or? What is the significance of your handle?

 

[1Way]

Bye all, I wont be back for another week or so. A week filled with adventure and the open road stretching out across America. (OTR truck driver. smile) I'm going to Texas, , , Say, Paul and Tal , , , I think I might be coming through your neck of the woods again! Probably sometime tomorrow evening or so. And I might be coming back up your way after delivery sometime Tuesday morning! Maybe we could try meeting again.

I wish I could meet Paul and Tal or and any other BEL supporters in a quick meeting somewhere near the interstate. I met Jobeth from “TOL” that way once in Georgia! Unfortunately, I do not know where in Texas I am going yet. So I can’t yet say for sure which route I will take.

See how disorganized I am, I should have the names and phone numbers of the people I’m wanting to meet before I leave! Details details.

 

[1Way]

Ok city, it would be monday night, not earlier. Bye.

 

[Poly]

Is OKC as close as you are going to get to the Tulsa area?

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by 1Way
Zakath – As to your comment to Knight.

Thank you for answering in his place.

I’m certain that “Doug” McBurney and us Enyart like minded fans are willing to allow fools and swine and unfit dogs and other such filth to go to hell where they belong, we do not wish that anyone goes to hell unless they are determined to go there.

Foolse, swine, and unfit dogs?

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. " - Mt. 5:22

"He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour." - Mt. 15:26-28

It's good that your Jesus had more concern for the lost than his followers in these days...

Where intolerance comes in is defending our witness to the world, we want to give the truth in love that can set them free and we will not tolerate anything that goes against that (God and His truth and ways).

Intolerance tends to close the door.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. " Mt. 23:15

But again, if you wont accept the truth and God’s way of salvation, then it’s to hell with jet rockets.

So you hope, since it justifies your intolerance.

 

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by 1Way
As to jhodgeiii’s statement to Knight. So you determine that there is not enough evidence to go one way or the other, but you seem to insist that it is a presentation supporting arguably the most cruel racist unjust treatment of blacks, even though the entire video presentation promotes scriptural teachings on this topic.

I'm only going by what I see. I'm not color- or shade-blind so I'm not being hypocritical here if that's what you're implying.

Business people in a public hanging is not the picture of a criminal lynching that we might imagine from white hooded KKK members for example.

This is where your ignorance on lynchings shows. Take a look at this link and see all the "business people" at these lynchings:
http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/lynching.htm (I'm not endorsing the other content of this website BTW)

Do you have ANY responses to the several claims in support that it was a white person being hanged?


- His skin was very light
- He may have been wearing a black facial hood

I reject the first argument. You can't even see his skin (which is completely covered with clothing) other than his "face." And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE note that I never insisted that the guy was black, but that he appeared to be, assuming that his head wasn't covered with a dark hood.

- The scene is not typical of an illegal racial lynching

A hanging from a tree is not typical of an illegal racial lynching? You're kidding, right?

The entire video's message and BEL’s ministry deplores such a terrible injustice as illegally hanging anyone

This is true. This video gives great arguments on righteous execution. I only question the scene of choice the producers of the tape decided to leave the viewer with. It leaves too much to ponder, especially for us blacks.

Suppose it was a black man that was being hung, why would you automatically think that the hanging was unjust or representative of unjust lynchings?

Perhaps because I've seen many, many photos of unjust lynchings similar to this setting???

- Why don’t you rather assume that the graphic representations were chose to be consistent with the teachings and style of the producers instead of contrary to them?

Actually, I did give the scene the benefit of the doubt, knowing Bob's nature. It's upsetting, however, that a tape so well done had to be marred with an ambiguous ending scene reminding us blacks of an unjust, painful history. Perhaps if blacks were the majority and years ago whites were unrighteously hung from trees among smiling blacks you would understand.

Or do you suggest that Bob has problems with racism and has no clearly expressed convictions against such an unloving and unrighteous thing?

I'll make it clear that Bob is NOT a racist. Bob is a role model for me, and I'd never want to slander his ministry. I credit him for my Christian fervency. However, being black and having mostly black friends, I KNOW that this scene will cause blacks to stumble. I really, really wish that the producers had used a different scene.

It seems to me that it is you who is being insensitive to the fact that the entire message of the video would completely condemn the notion that you think this one scene seems to promote. Ignorance is forgivable, it's outgrown all the time.(!) Praise God.

You do not understand the spirit of my letter to Bob. If by this point you still don't, then I will forgive your ignorance, brother.

I’m certain that “Doug” McBurney and us Enyart like minded fans are willing to allow fools and swine and unfit dogs and other such filth to go to hell where they belong, we do not wish that anyone goes to hell unless they are determined to go there. Where intolerance comes in is defending our witness to the world, we want to give the truth in love that can set them free and we will not tolerate anything that goes against that (God and His truth and ways). But again, if you wont accept the truth and God’s way of salvation, then it’s to hell with jet rockets.

I pray that your diatribe edifies someone else because I have been a Bible-believing Christian since age 13, thank you. You know, one thing about Bob is that he seems to have a gift for revealing unbelievers. I can clearly see that you lack this gift 1WAY.

Have a nice trip and see you when you get back.

 

[Jefferson]

If there is someone on this forum who is a member of the church Bob pastors please ask him where he got that photograph. From a book? From a website? Then we could possibly track down the real story behind the picture instead of just speculating and guessing about it.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Jefferson
If there is someone on this forum who is a member of the church Bob pastors please ask him where he got that photograph. From a book? From a website? Then we could possibly track down the real story behind the picture instead of just speculating and guessing about it.

I just talked to Bob. Bob said the picture is of a white man being hung in a public execution in the mid-west some time around the late 1800's.

 

[Goose]

Originally posted by Knight
I just talked to Bob. Bob said the picture is of a white man being hung in a public execution in the mid-west some time around the late 1800's.

It depends on what your definition of 'white' is, Knight.

 

[jhodgeiii]

Originally posted by Knight
I just talked to Bob. Bob said the picture is of a white man being hung in a public execution in the mid-west some time around the late 1800's.

Any details of the like that Jefferson mentions? If I have a source, I could preempt misinterpretation of this scene for those whom I want to show this tape.

For myself, race really isn't the issue, but the rightfulness of the execution IS. If you could even give me just the book it came from I would dig up the details myself.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by jhodgeiii

Any details of the like that Jefferson mentions? If I have a source, I could preempt misinterpretation of this scene for those whom I want to show this tape.

For myself, race really isn't the issue, but the rightfulness of the execution IS. If you could even give me just the book it came from I would dig up the details myself.

I think I have taken this as far (even further) than I care to.

Please call Bob if you wish to have any further details. Thanks!