Theology Club: circumcised vs uncircumcised

[Jerry Shugart]

What other Gospel is it ?

You have been told a dozen time what the two gospels are. But since you cannot understand these simple things I will waste no more time with you.

 

[beloved57]

You have been told a dozen time what the two gospels are. But since you cannot understand these simple things I will waste no more time with you.

There is no other Gospel, since the beginning of time, its been one Faith Jude 1:3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Saints here goes back to the OT Saints. There is only One common Salvation, that which was promised to Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Since the world began Lk 1:69-70

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is no other Gospel, since the beginning of time, its been one Faith Jude 1:3

The Twelve were preaching a gospel at a time when they did not even know the Lord Jesus was to die.

That gospel could not possibly be the same gospel which is centered on the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross, the one which declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

But of course all of this is way above your head since you are incapable of understanding the things of the Spirit of God:

" But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​

 

[beloved57]

The Twelve were preaching a gospel at a time when they did not even know the Lord Jesus was to die.

That gospel could not possibly be the same gospel which is centered on the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross, the one which declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

But of course all of this is way above your head since you are incapable of understanding the things of the Spirit of God:

" But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​

There is no other Gospel, since the beginning of time, its been one Faith Jude 1:3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Saints here goes back to the OT Saints. There is only One common Salvation, that which was promised to Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Since the world began Lk 1:69-70

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is no other Gospel, since the beginning of time, its been one Faith Jude 1:3

You are foolish because you just close your eyes to what I said here:

The Twelve were preaching a gospel at a time when they did not even know the Lord Jesus was to die.

That gospel could not possibly be the same gospel which is centered on the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross, the one which declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Are you really as dense as you seem to be?

 

[beloved57]

You are foolish because you just close your eyes to what I said here:

The Twelve were preaching a gospel at a time when they did not even know the Lord Jesus was to die.

That gospel could not possibly be the same gospel which is centered on the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross, the one which declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Are you really as dense as you seem to be?

There is no other Gospel, since the beginning of time, its been one Faith Jude 1:3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Saints here goes back to the OT Saints. There is only One common Salvation, that which was promised to Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Since the world began Lk 1:69-70

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:


Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Shasta]

Paul preached the gospel of uncircumcision

Act 18:12 But when Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews made a united attack on Paul and brought him before the tribunal,
Act 18:13 saying, "This man is persuading people to worship God contrary to the law."

These were not believing Jews. Having rejected the gospel they were angry with Paul and were just trying to get him in trouble. Gallio saw through it and would not even hear them. We do not know what laws they were talking about. The Council at Jerusalem had already decided that circumcision of converts was not necessary in Acts 15. The Jewish converts probably still practiced it but a lot of people of both classes do for other than religious reasons. There are scriptures that abridge the requirement to eat kosher as well. As for Sabbath-keeping, history says that the Church worshiped on Sunday. What laws were absolutely mandatory for Jewish believers but not for Gentiles and where is this mentioned?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

When Are You Going to Answer These Questions?

When Are You Going to Answer These Questions?

The message of the cross was preached to Jew as well as Gentile (1 Corinthians 1:23-24) and was equally offensive to both.

Yes, on the day of Pentecost Peter spoke the following message concerning the Cross:

"Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" (Acts 2:23).​

However, in that uninterrupted sermon preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost beginning at Acts 2:14 and ending at Acts 2:36 there is not a word about God's "grace" and there is not a word about the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death on the Cross. Despite this men were being saved by believing what Peter preached, a so-called bloodless gospel.

This Jewish gospel you are proposing is bloodless and therefore possesses no power to save.

The so-called bloodless gospel declares that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and those who believe that gospel receive life and are saved the second they believe it:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

Are you willing to deny that believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, brings salvation?

Are you willing to argue that believing those truths do not result in a person being born of God?:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-4).​

Are you willing to argue that someone can believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and remain unsaved?

Are you willing to argue that the declaration that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is not a gospel? Even though it brings life to those who believe it?

If your answer is "no" then are you willing to argue that that gospel is the same one which declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus?

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

You are foolish because you just close your eyes to what I said here:

The Twelve were preaching a gospel at a time when they did not even know the Lord Jesus was to die.

That gospel could not possibly be the same gospel which is centered on the purpose of the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross, the one which declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Are you really as dense as you seem to be?

Jesus and John the Baptist preached good news (gospel). People hearing these words of good news (gospels) would not be saved until after Jesus died for their sins; and given new life after Jesus rose from the dead. There is truly just one true Gospel that leads to Salvation and Faith, through God's grace and mercy. The other gospels are a foreshadowing of the true Gospel. They are not wrong, just incomplete at the time they were preached.

 

[Dialogos]

Yes, they are justified by grace. However, it is only the "gospel of grace" which declares that men are saved freely by His grace.

Jerry,

Each apostolic person had their own distinct way of preaching the gospel and each one accommodated their audience and allowed the gospel to speak into the specific situation.

Consequently, Peter's address to Jews and proselytes is very different than Paul's address to the stoics in the Areopagus.

Your approach leaves you making unnecessary distinctions and claiming that the circumcised are saved by grace, they are justified by grace but they aren't the recipients of the "gospel of grace"

One might reasonably ask what, if anything, is substantively different between the gospels?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus and John the Baptist preached good news (gospel). People hearing these words of good news (gospels) would not be saved until after Jesus died for their sins; and given new life after Jesus rose from the dead.

Where do you get this nonsense? Here is what the Lord Jesus said to a woman BEFORE He died and was resurrected:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

You really need to read the Bible because you show that you have a very limited idea as to what is taught in the Bible.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

One might reasonably ask what, if anything, is substantively different between the gospels?

Anyone with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment can understand the fact that the gospel that declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus is NOT the same gospel that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

 

[beloved57]

Anyone with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment can understand the fact that the gospel that declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus is NOT the same gospel that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

There is and has been only One Gospel One Faith Jude 1:3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

[Dialogos]

Anyone with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment can understand the fact that the gospel that declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus is NOT the same gospel that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

Jerry, that's an insult disguised as an answer.

Is there a substantive difference or not?

 

[Bright Raven]

So you admit that Paul's ministry was not limited to those of the uncircumcision.

Do you also understand that those of the circumcision to whom Paul preached the gospel of the circumcision were saved by believing that gospel?

Paul preached to the circumcision first upon entering a town. His first place to go was the synagogue. After this he would preach to the Gentiles. This was so until Paul was separated unto the Gospel of the uncircumcision.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Where do you get this nonsense? Here is what the Lord Jesus said to a woman BEFORE He died and was resurrected:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).
​

You really need to read the Bible because you show that you have a very limited idea as to what is taught in the Bible.

What is sat at meat? What translation are you reading from or are you too embarrassed to say?

What does the term “gospel” mean?

<!-- <a href="/question/what-does-term-%E2%80%9Cgospel%E2%80%9D-mean"> -->
The term gospel is found ninety-nine times in the NASB and ninety-two times in the NET Bible. In the Greek New Testament, gospel is the translation of the Greek noun euangelion (occurring 76 times) “good news,” and the verb euangelizo„ (occurring 54 times), meaning “to bring or announce good news.” Both words are derived from the noun angelos, “messenger.” In classical Greek, an euangelos was one who brought a message of victory or other political or personal news that caused joy. In addition, euangelizomai (the middle voice form of the verb) meant “to speak as a messenger of gladness, to proclaim good news.”<SUP> </SUP>Further, the noun euangelion became a technical term for the message of victory, though it was also used for a political or private message that brought joy.


[From Bible.org]

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, that's an insult disguised as an answer.

Is there a substantive difference or not?

You are blind as a bat if you cannot even see that there is a substanative difference between the gospel that declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus is NOT the same gospel that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

You insult our intelligence if you expect anyone to believe that there is no difference between those two gospels!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What is sat at meat? What translation are you reading from or are you too embarrassed to say?

The quote is from the KJV!

The words "sat at meat" are referring to sharing a meal.

People hearing these words of good news (gospels) would not be saved until after Jesus died for their sins; and given new life after Jesus rose from the dead.

Where did you get that nonsense? Here we can see that a woman was saved BEFORE the Lord Jesus died and was resurrected:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

You know very little about what is in the Bible but you pose as an expert!

Do you never tire of embarrassing yourself?

 

[Dialogos]

You are blind as a bat if you cannot even see that there is a substanative difference between the gospel that declares that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus is NOT the same gospel that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

You insult our intelligence if you expect anyone to believe that there is no difference between those two gospels!

So then, oh wise and discerning sage, it should be quite facile for you to articulate the differences.



Really, just a bullet point list would be fine.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So then, oh wise and discerning sage, it should be quite facile for you to articulate the differences.

One gospel addresses the "identity" of Jesus, that He is the Christ, the Son of God.

The other gospel addresses the "purpose" of the Cross, that believers are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.